I was not trying to troll, my statement is merely a way to say that I take no pleasure in expressing to owners the likelihood of their vehicle being potentially cancelled based on the facts I've cited. If it came across as being confrontational, that was not my intention.

 

What "facts"?

 

Ford took the iconic Mustang brand and turned it into an SUV it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Lexus does the same thing with the LS.

 

I'm not sure if they would rename the Century SUV into the LS, because Toyota perceives Century as being above Lexus. They would position it like Maybach to Mercedes.

 

If not then the LS is dead I don't see Lexus making a new model LS do you? Don't forget Toyota slapped the 86 badge on a Subaru so leadership is certainly not above soiling the legends.

 

In Toyota's eyes, the name being soiled would be the Century, not the LS. The Century has always been positioned as the highest mark in the Toyota portfolio, in fact I don't recall if it ever had a Toyota badge on it.

The relevance of the LS nameplate though, yeah I'm not sure if Toyota cares as much, going back to what I said before about its North American origins. Those who care about the nameplate are not the same young people who care about coupes. So yes, I can see the LS nameplate being retired.

 

They brought this upon themselves. The 4th LS was supposed to get a redesign in 6-year cycle. Instead they dragged the replacement for as long as they could and people started to lose patience. Worst of all, by the time the 5th LS had arrived, some aspects of the fifth generation even regressed. Today’s poor sales are their own doing, but it doesn’t mean all hope is lost. Isn’t their biggest strength their hybrid technology? If they had leveraged the strengths of their hybrid systems to improve smoothness and power to at least match BMW and Mercedes, with handling that’s competitive (or slightly behind) but with superior comfort, and ensured that their autonomous driving and tech features were more up-to-date, the product itself could've become more appealing and potentially gained more sells. It could've taken on a style similar to the Gran Coupe or Panamera, conveying the right messages showing what its selling points are without getting backlash for compromising comfort in favor of handling. If they had achieved all these points, I don’t think the sales would be this dismal. I really do hope they come onto owner's forum to see people's real advice.

 

Your equating the low sales volume of the LS to the entire Lexus line with no statistics nor context.
Lexus, as does Genesis volume is far more weighted to other models.

. Lexus records its best 1st half of sales ever.
The RX is the volume leader.

The Century is a hand built machine in limited quantities and is a 4 seater that optioned up costs $220,000. It will be sold in non us markets in Lexus dealers.
Will it replace the LS? Or will the LS just disappear?
I doubt the Centrury can sustain at that price point much volume. It can be a status flagship and serve a purpose.
Just because the LS was the car that started the company does not mean it stays forever. Things change.
Genesis could be playing the same game with the G90 that Lexus did which was dump the cars at a break ever or loss to gain market share. Its a very nice car at a good price.
Its is a new model and should succeed. That it sells well in its home country should not be surprising nor telling of the future of Lexus.
toyota and Lexus don't sell well in China and never have. If you understand the history of those two countries you get one reason. That China now is a major builder of cars is another.
Lexus succeeds, Toyota succeeds. You seem speak as if you are you are an insider but lack much statistical data to prove a point.

We are at the crossroads of Auto Tech and no clear path to the future for EV, Hydrogen, and hybrids. I discussed in this forum that they could do an LS thing like the Crown which is a single platform with a sedan and 5 door model to suite tastes. just a guess. Are you offering an opinion or speak as if you are in the know?

 

"The weakness of the LS (and Lexus as a brand in general) is that it's a product that was always designed for the North American market first and foremost;"
"LS sales in the US are supposed to be the pillar of its existence".

I would suggest you look up model year to year volume and come to understand the fact its bene years since that was a valid statement.
LS sales as have sales of other flagships are declined in US market for years.



Breaking it down in US market:


https://www.carpro.com/blog/3rd-quar...ers-and-losers

2024 3rd Quarter U.S. Auto Sales
Ford: 474,782 FLAT
Toyota: 461,879 Down 10%
Chevrolet: 419,801 Down 6%
Honda: 333,105 Up 10%
Hyundai: 210,971 Up 5%
Kia: 197,710 Down 6%
Nissan: 197,528 Down 1%
Subaru: 171,169 Up 5%
GMC: 151,865 Up 6%
Jeep: 144,963 Down 6%
Volkswagen: 93,271 Up 6%
Mazda: 110,966 Up 25%
Ram: 108,925 Down 19%
Lexus: 80,997 Up 8%
BMW: 78,128 Down 7%
Buick: 47,405 Up 8%
Audi: 46,752 Down 21%
Cadillac: 37,214 Up 4%
Acura: 33,109 Down 10%
Mitsubishi: 31,588 Up 42%
Volvo: 28,535 Down 12%
Dodge: 26,559 Down 43%
Lincoln: 25,713 Up 26%
Chrysler: 22,482 Down 47%
Genesis: 20,117 Up 4%
Infiniti: 14,540 Down 12%
Mini: 5,284 Down 33%
Alfa Romeo: 2,049 Down 29%
Lamborghini: 1,030 Up 3%
Bentley: 875 Down 3%
Maserati: 770 Down 21%
Rolls-Royce: 400 Down 24%
Fiat: 316 Up 117%

Genesis makes some really fresh looking cars. What is there sales leader Btw? I'd think the GV70? GV80? then G80? G70 Looks at the end of its cycle. G90 should be selling more than LS500. Its newer and fresher.

The figures above are up or down 3rd quarter compared to same Qtr year before, not YTD.
While Lexus started with the LS line 35 years ago its been al long time since it was the volume leader. The world has changed.
I buy my cars a few years older so its not like I was out in the dealership shopping flagships. In fact, I never looked at the G90 as the previous model is not of interest to me at all. I sold my GS350 at a crazy hight price and bought a similar mileage car for just 15k more. I get the depreciation reality and took advantage of it.
Not many are buying new LS500. Some that are find great value in them.
I don't know why Mercedes is not on the above list, Might not be posting number publicly?
Lexus is the top luxury brand just ahead of BMW. After that they are far above others. I don't think thats an "afterthought" market.
year to year comps can be found I suppose. Model intro's matter. the car industry is not thriving right now. Why are some up vs down depends on vehicle models. Why is Mitsubishi Up 42% 3rd qtr to last years 3rd quarter? What is so good or what is so back about last year?

Nobody here disputes LS500 is a tired model. Its now in its 8th model year!!!

 

I think Lexus did want the LS500 to be a Gran Coupe and Panamera competitor. That is why it became much less roomy inside and placed a greater emphasis on handling and performance at the cost of a stiff ride and runflats. From what Carmaker1 has hinted at and what the front-mid-engine design of the LS500 also hinted at was that it was supposed to be housing a TTV8 at some point in its life. After the cancellation of the TTV8 version of the LC500, this is no longer possible, especially in today's market, but it makes me scratch my head at why Toyota sank so much money into this platform with all these grand plans (including a new GS and the LQ SUV) only to scrap them all at the last minute, and release the hydrogen Mirai that nobody is buying as the only other platform mate to the LS in the US.

As it is now, the market has changed even further, sales of sedans (including flagships) are continuing to decline, and going down this path without a solid core base of buyers is just a losing proposition.

That's not what I'm equating at all and I don't know how you interpretative my post in that manner. What I am saying is that Lexus is a North American-focused brand, because North America is the region where it has the highest global sales volume. Thus, sales of the LS here matter more than anywhere else in the world, because the US, like the rest of Lexus, is the primary market that the LS was designed for. Unlike the Germans and Genesis, it does not have the home base advantage where it can comfortably rely on the Japanese public to serves as the core of sales. That is why I brought up the G90, because it can comfortably rely on the South Korean market to buy the vehicle. The LS is in a difficult situation because its primary buying base, the North American market, isn't buying it, and no other market in the world is making up for those lost sales.

At the high price it sells for, the Century doesn't need high volume to be profitable. And to be honest, I can't completely discount the possibility that it might sell better than the LS, because it's an SUV. $170K is not unheard of for a luxury SUV these days (LX is already $135K), if anything people will see it as a "discount Cullinan." And the main thing with the Century SUV is that unlike the LS, it doesn't have to rely on the North American market to be successful, because it's already guaranteed success through its home market in Japan. Toyota will never kill the Century nameplate because of its history, reputation in Japanese society and royal family/politicians etc which the LS does not have.

 

The current Century SUV is a Toyota Grand Highlander clone.
That doesn’t seem like a possible Lexus flagship model to me.

 

Wrong again! It's based upon Toyota's TNGA-K (GA-K), which underpins several Lexus vehicles, including the RX and TX. It is certainly not a Highlander.

 

Incorrect. It is based on a grand Highlander

 

Which...isn't a Highlander. Point is that it's platform only. The Century is certainly not a Toyota, just like a Lexus is not a Toyota.

 

It's a Highlander