Let's skip the ls isnt a race car/sell it and buy a different car talk ... after nearly 15 years are there no performance parts for our cars. Seems all the other Lexus cars have some type of go faster goodies. Just saw that the is350 with bolt ons is putting down the same numbers as our ur engines ( same cr ,less displacement). Lextreme , sector 7 ,rr racing will someone please answer the call ?!!

 

They don't exist since these cars were never viewed as that type of car, they get outrun by 1 and 3 series cars with the bottom tier engines with a tune that cost way less for cheap speed.

Even for its time the 460 is slow and there is no easy way to improve it due to how complex the engine is. Take it as it is a use it as a daily boat or get a German car like the A8 and outrun hellcats

 

Dreamcrusher LOL

 

Nah I've just been there, I turned a 2003 ram 1500 quad cab 4x4 with the old 5.9 magnum engine into a monster. The engine alone cost me $14500 and I did everything but the machine shop work.

You CAN make something slow fast but it costs a lot of money and a LOT of custom one off work.

 

I know the ls is a big girl but based on the hp/weight it should be faster. The engine itself is impressive at ~86hp/l so it leads to other things being the culprit. There has to be stuff we can change , remove or improve. Shift points?? Sulev stuff? Safety factors for reliability?

 

HP/L is the MOST meanginless metric ever, HP/weight/size is what matters and it's why by any metric you can possibly use the LS7 is completely superior to the S85 V10 or any other V8 engine for the most part. Better MPG for same weight car, better emission, smaller in all physical dimensions (can pack it lower), lighter by 100+ lb most of the time, and far more reliable and extremely easy to raise power to 700 NA and over 1300 forced.

The 460 is dealing with a lower flow head, tiny cams, an extremely complex quad overhead cam set up (look up the hell 5.0 ford guys have to deal with getting cam timing to line up when they swap, and that's WITH deleting VVTI) a very complex packaging situation (literally 100lb heavier, bigger in every way, way more difficult pan shape, etc) the coolant setup has a lot more crossovers/leak points and can't be easily tripled in flow/cooling capacity like the LS/LT or HEMI, and you have an insane amount of parts to do something as simple as a cam swap.

LS7 cam swap: springs, retainers, guides (if needed on a high mile engine), lifters (If worn), pushrods, and cam.....and you are at 690hp with improved midrange.

The same work on a 460 would cost out the gate 4x as much at minimum in parts due to simple quantity but realistically more than 12x since there is no parts market. The 1UR is already nearly at intake charge stall speed at the ports so you would be forced to increase valve curtain area on an already "small" driving displacement per square inch. In Laymans terms this essentially means that you will murder your low and mid range for marginal increases in the top and because the engine is already so complex and set up to optimize all the particular RPM bands air velocity. The reason it has variable runners, VVTi-E, and DI is because it's already maxing out or very close to what it's intake valve curtain area can support.

That's why the LS600 5.0 engine with very similar heads doesn't make any more top end, the valves are maxed out already, but the larger "driver" of 5.0L means that midrange port velocity can be better optimized and overall RPM band cylinder fill average is increased AKA average power increases. However unless you increase the curtain area of the heads themselves or increase the port duration and velocity (by altering cam profile or port flow respectively, as we have gone over this is already extremely hard) you are already looking at near max of what a 1UR head can do. Now remember, you already have nearly perfect cam phasing, phasing is the ability to control when the valve opening and closing and overlap events all occur to optimize vacuum affect, you again aim to increase cylinder fill as greatly as physically possible relative to how much driving displacement you have under the intake valves. That's VVTI

If you have a larger driving displacement of the same size intake valve you do not need to employ as much of those technologies because the vacuum differential is simply greater when you have a larger displacement cylinder underneath. If you have a larger driving displacement under the same size intake valve you do not need to employ as much of those technologies because the vacuum differential is simply greater when you have a larger displacement cylinder underneath the valves but this results in lower HP/L even if average power is increased massively.

Again we have two very good real world examples.

The LS7 vs S85, both make 500hp stock but one has far greater average power since its driving a slightly greater intake valve curtain area with 2L more displacement and even without a continuously variable intake, intake valve lift, and cam phasing the simply superior head raw flow combined with a stronger "driver" from the increased size wins in every single metric.

The other would be the Ford 4.6 two valve and Chrysler 4.7 two valve in their original trim vs the older Chrysler 360 and Ford 350, on paper the smaller engines are "better" since they have same HP total and more per L and all that but in reality the older, larger engines had nearly the same overall valve area and head flow and much larger size. This allowed them to dominate the midrange and average power so much so that when Jeep released the "fastest SUV in the world" back in the 1990s they didn't use the 4.7 they used the 5.9 magnum even though on paper the 4.7 was supposed to be faster. It isn't.


If you don't understand what I am saying then you need to honestly just research engines as a whole more and you will realize that while the 1UR is a very very very impressively optimized engine that is getting the most it possibly can out of its head flow and displacement........it's at its limit out of the box. That's why the 2UR-GSE has ENTIRELY different heads so much so the valve angle (improves valve shrouding and port velocity/angle) and that being an insane change in top of totally different ports and intakes is needed to make only 470hp.

Real V8s were doing that before 2010, the current 6.4 hemi in particular will WALK a UR engine since its average power is literally 30% greater and there is very little you can do even with fantastic gearing and a lot of transmission gearing to offset that type of difference.

If you really want to make a 1UR high output the only realistic way is to pull it out, replace the weak pistons and rods, GAP THE RINGS to a useable spec for heavy load and replace the oil rings to standard tension units. Then put it under 12-14 PSI to have about the same output as an LSA or hellcat engine....before they just retune and pulley swap and are over 1000

TLDR the ls460 engine is already nearly maxed out from the factory in terms of power due to the design. If the below is incomprehensible to you then you need to learn more before attempting anything.

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/1809-refresh-bigger-cam-ls7-worth-661-hp/

 

Its all about demand, if there was demand people would develop those modifications. There isn't, so they haven't.

 

Is pouring money in a 1UR with the slow but smooth shifting 8 speed (with open differential) really a smart idea?

IMO the only 460s worth modifying for speed are the Sport and FSport models with SPDS 8spd from the ISF/GSF

All the go fast goodies are in Japan, if they made it, they didnt make many....

My exhuast is complete TIG welded custom built unit which cost a fortune especially after 3 iterations. Yes theres some power to be had here.

 

Just swap a IS350 diff, you gain 1.0 ratio (2.9? To 4.1? Type gain) and the torsional LSD as well, much better than the F-sport since you keep weight low by not having air suspension.

If you really want to make it faster for same price upgrade the exhaust side VVT actuators (there is a thread here), do the diff swap, put 255s on the back, and do long tube headers with a nice exhaust as above or cutouts with the rest stock for max power and ability to switch from silent to deafening. That's about all that's worth it and if you can find someone to tune the stock ECU even with the normal trans you will be happy.

You should be able to get around a 4.8 second real world 0-60 with that, that's my plan for when I move to a 460 as my daily.

 

Actually , I was planning on reinforcing my piston and rods for the HKS supercharger . But for now i will see how long does the stock engine handle 7 psi of boost since there is no data on it . then maybe upgrade with a custom pulley to raise the boost .

 

You can get the same performance without the kit by doing what I mentioned......the HKS kit is very overpriced for what you get. Or screw it and do both to get the maximum possible

 

I am waiting on a few parts from HKS turn-around time is 6 months.

 

The air suspension is trash after ten years anyways. You might want to consider an altitude change if you want to drive fast/have more power on board. In my case a proper suspension improved this platform so much, it enhanced it.

With aspirations of more power what about braking the 4400lb car? The 15” FSport 6pot Brembos stop better than anything I remember from my LS430/400.

The Lexus torsen is nothing special but id rather have it back there than one tire fire 🔥. The next mod I’m considering is a proper OS Giken.

Factory headers really restrict 1UR power as it does on the 2UR. Even with the inferior head design when compared, Id say the 4.6 could still churn out 80% of the gains the 5L sees with a header upgrade. As the most costly bolt on approach thats why I havent touched it. Personally I wouldnt waste any money opening up this motor for power. Im content with “400” or so horsepower, having M mode on board just makes it that much better.
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Id really like to see some more performance focused LS460’s here.

 

Also the headers on my HKS engine is stock design the only difference is that HKS changed the cats inside.

 

Are you sure the reduced output of the 5.0 in the ls600 doesn't account for drag of it running the ms1 generator? you are clearly way more knowledgeable than me when it comes to engines, but it think we are on the same page in terms of the ur engine being super optimized out of the box. My stance was/is there has to be ways to minimize loses and ways to the power to the ground more quickly.