A money pit
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 17,910
Likes: 1,702
From: Ohio
Pit Crew
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 243
Likes: 38
From: MN
I think you bring up some good points...you have a good attitude towards it. But this is where I’ll rain on the parade a little bit (just a little). Age and mileage. As the car ages, things will wear and there really is nothing you can do about it. Paint, rubber, and plastics. There’s just nothing you can do. The paint will fade. The rubber will dry. And the plastics will crack. Unless of course we are talking about a garage queen...not driven...hidden away from weather and sunlight. Now you could keep up with this stuff, but it’ll cost you a fortune.
Now that’s ^^^ time. Let’s talk mileage. You haven’t driven all that much, yet your car has 120,000 miles. You are soon to be heading into a point in an engine’s life where it’ll either consume oil and become a bit of a problem...or it won’t. I reached that point with my LS460 at 150,000 miles. By the time I traded it in at 178,000 miles it was consuming a quart every 1,000 miles. So that’s where I reached my correlation point. I had already dealt with the control arms (twice actually), the blower motor, normal “stuff”. The brake actuator was indeed right there knocking on my door step (it was noisy and it needed replacement). The paint was starting to look a bit rough. The interior plastics were worn/melted on the arm rests. And THEN the oil consumption hit. Big time. Now I had myself a true money pit. And a little earlier than I expected.
So I think it depends...it depends on mileage, age, price, and just how much one intends to drive the vehicle. You apparently don’t drive all that much, but if you did, I think there is a chance your purchase could have become a “money pit”. However if you don’t drive much - put only 10,000 miles on a car per year - you could probably get away with driving a Ferrari and remain unscathed. Especially if you only keep it 3-4 years. Honestly.
I drove mine a lot and I probably would still have it if not for the oil consumption.
Now that’s ^^^ time. Let’s talk mileage. You haven’t driven all that much, yet your car has 120,000 miles. You are soon to be heading into a point in an engine’s life where it’ll either consume oil and become a bit of a problem...or it won’t. I reached that point with my LS460 at 150,000 miles. By the time I traded it in at 178,000 miles it was consuming a quart every 1,000 miles. So that’s where I reached my correlation point. I had already dealt with the control arms (twice actually), the blower motor, normal “stuff”. The brake actuator was indeed right there knocking on my door step (it was noisy and it needed replacement). The paint was starting to look a bit rough. The interior plastics were worn/melted on the arm rests. And THEN the oil consumption hit. Big time. Now I had myself a true money pit. And a little earlier than I expected.
So I think it depends...it depends on mileage, age, price, and just how much one intends to drive the vehicle. You apparently don’t drive all that much, but if you did, I think there is a chance your purchase could have become a “money pit”. However if you don’t drive much - put only 10,000 miles on a car per year - you could probably get away with driving a Ferrari and remain unscathed. Especially if you only keep it 3-4 years. Honestly.
I drove mine a lot and I probably would still have it if not for the oil consumption.
Pole Position
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,561
Likes: 365
From: New Hampshire
Right? Haha. And that did cross my mind...still does. But seriously it can lead to other things besides “just replacing oil”...fouled plugs, damaged cats. The oil was definitely tracking into the intake (lot of blow by past the rings), but it still was running good. I probably could have just kept adding five quarts between oil change intervals...or gone crazy and just replaced the filter every 5,000 miles...maybe driven it another 100,000 miles, I don’t know, but when a lot of things start to add up (and your engine is consuming a lot of oil), it’s probably a good time to bail.
Driver
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 113
Likes: 18
From: qc
any car, any brand, if bought used, over a certain mileage, it can cost the equivalent of what's paid initially in repairs later on.
thats when the cost to repair is higher than the cost of depreciation.
I'd say it qualifies as a money pit when the cost to repair is high even when the car is still depreciating a lot due to being relatively new...
Having 5K a year in repairs on a 10 year old 15k $ car aint much different from having to change 300$ in parts on a winter beater. its just that it seems worse because the numbers are bigger
If your 30-40K 4-5-year old LS costs you 5k a year to maintain, thats a money pit right there, if its out of warranty, as next year it wont be worth much more than 33-4K so you'd have lost 30% of what you paid over a year, and still depreciating much more after that.
thats when the cost to repair is higher than the cost of depreciation.
I'd say it qualifies as a money pit when the cost to repair is high even when the car is still depreciating a lot due to being relatively new...
Having 5K a year in repairs on a 10 year old 15k $ car aint much different from having to change 300$ in parts on a winter beater. its just that it seems worse because the numbers are bigger
If your 30-40K 4-5-year old LS costs you 5k a year to maintain, thats a money pit right there, if its out of warranty, as next year it wont be worth much more than 33-4K so you'd have lost 30% of what you paid over a year, and still depreciating much more after that.
Last edited by cochiseg; Feb 3, 2020 at 07:44 AM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 17,910
Likes: 1,702
From: Ohio
Only really needed the lower arm bushings, I always do every seal on a car I buy anyway as well as resetting all maintenance items needed or not so I know the state of those items. Plus changed all the bulbs for the same reasons, none of the 460s I looked at needed as little and all cost more and I didn't feel like dealing with that on a daily plus they were not enough of an improvement for me to want the hassle. Again I could have ignored everything I did but come on, I can and did replace the entire steering system sans rack with proforged stuff for under $300 and two hours of my time so why not? It is stupid cheap and make me happy know everything is being replaced with new stuff even if I can't really feel any difference when driving it, it just kinda happens on anything I own after a while upper arms and mounts on sale? Well why not just replace them all when the car is on the list for an oil change......thing is so stupid easy to work on it almost a joke. Sure it helps to own a shop and with that logic I can if I wanted by a 745Li and keep it alive too but I don't like thing that are annoying to work on or break a lot.
Problem I had and why I switched to a LS was my Jeep in only 50k miles started having things I resealed or fixed break again and I just didn't care for that at all. Thing only retains it's original front axle and everything else was replaced or rebuilt at that point but I was not liking the fact things I already did once failed again.
Problem I had and why I switched to a LS was my Jeep in only 50k miles started having things I resealed or fixed break again and I just didn't care for that at all. Thing only retains it's original front axle and everything else was replaced or rebuilt at that point but I was not liking the fact things I already did once failed again.
Last edited by Striker223; Feb 3, 2020 at 11:52 AM.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 47
Likes: 14
From: Texas
My 2 cents
So I have to chime in as I recently dumped my 09 Ls460 for an 09 gx470.
I purchased an 09ls460 with 75k miles in 2018 for 16k, I felt I got a good deal, I did my research and knew going in there would be some repairs, I was not prepared for how fast they would come on. I replaced the radiator myself, fine, not a bad job, I paid an Indy mechanic to install all front control arms (beck Arnely, they only lasted 15k miles before they started creaking again, and I ensured they were all torqued while loaded as I did this myself as soon as I got home to be safe)
Then the real fun began, my brake actuator failed $2800 repair, my motor mounts were beginning to fail estimates were $1800 - $3000 (there is no easy way to replace these $150 dollar parts), and I was nervous about the starter going next, some days the car was slow to start and battery & alternator amperage was fine.
In the end while I know you have to pay to play, the cost to play with the Ls460 is WAY to high for the value of the car you own. And values continue to plumet.
The whole time I had this car, my wife drove an 06 gx470, currently has 180k miles on it. Every time I got in her car I could feel the difference in quality, design, materials. Yes a truck with that many miles needs work too, however it’s WAY less severe compared to the maintenance and repairs on an LS460, we have driven the truck for 80k.
I am also glad to hear others seem to agree the LS430 was much better when it comes to reliability and materials.
I bought my 460 when originally looking for a 430. I found a 460 at what I get was a great deal but I really just bought someone else’s problem.
Every time I drove the 460 in the final days I felt the lack of Lexus quality, from the melted glue trap panels (thanks Lexus for replacing after a class action suit threat) to the cheap feel of the leather, to the creaking suspension, to the rock of the motor due to failing motor mounts, to the gas fume smell when you decide you want to feel the power (Lexus claims this is due to the catalytic converters releasing carbon) to the oil leaks from a Lexus motor with less than 100k miles. I was over it, way over it, the first opportunity I had to get out of the car I took it when I got the right price for it. I traded the car for an 09 gx470 with 98k miles and could not be happier, yes it’s not a sporty car but it is so much more comfortable and the quality is definitely there as the 09 was the last model year of the first gen design for the GX. All things considered I am personally convinced that Lexus missed the mark on the ls460, I feel strongly that the popularity of the 430 led to high demand of the 460 (hence the huge resale market for these cars). That high demand led Lexus to produce the cars much more quickly and in the end engineering and build quality suffered tremendously. I sincerely hope that the future generations of the Ls460 are improved but from what I have read they haven’t changed much, only time will tell how they hold up.
I purchased an 09ls460 with 75k miles in 2018 for 16k, I felt I got a good deal, I did my research and knew going in there would be some repairs, I was not prepared for how fast they would come on. I replaced the radiator myself, fine, not a bad job, I paid an Indy mechanic to install all front control arms (beck Arnely, they only lasted 15k miles before they started creaking again, and I ensured they were all torqued while loaded as I did this myself as soon as I got home to be safe)
Then the real fun began, my brake actuator failed $2800 repair, my motor mounts were beginning to fail estimates were $1800 - $3000 (there is no easy way to replace these $150 dollar parts), and I was nervous about the starter going next, some days the car was slow to start and battery & alternator amperage was fine.
In the end while I know you have to pay to play, the cost to play with the Ls460 is WAY to high for the value of the car you own. And values continue to plumet.
The whole time I had this car, my wife drove an 06 gx470, currently has 180k miles on it. Every time I got in her car I could feel the difference in quality, design, materials. Yes a truck with that many miles needs work too, however it’s WAY less severe compared to the maintenance and repairs on an LS460, we have driven the truck for 80k.
I am also glad to hear others seem to agree the LS430 was much better when it comes to reliability and materials.
I bought my 460 when originally looking for a 430. I found a 460 at what I get was a great deal but I really just bought someone else’s problem.
Every time I drove the 460 in the final days I felt the lack of Lexus quality, from the melted glue trap panels (thanks Lexus for replacing after a class action suit threat) to the cheap feel of the leather, to the creaking suspension, to the rock of the motor due to failing motor mounts, to the gas fume smell when you decide you want to feel the power (Lexus claims this is due to the catalytic converters releasing carbon) to the oil leaks from a Lexus motor with less than 100k miles. I was over it, way over it, the first opportunity I had to get out of the car I took it when I got the right price for it. I traded the car for an 09 gx470 with 98k miles and could not be happier, yes it’s not a sporty car but it is so much more comfortable and the quality is definitely there as the 09 was the last model year of the first gen design for the GX. All things considered I am personally convinced that Lexus missed the mark on the ls460, I feel strongly that the popularity of the 430 led to high demand of the 460 (hence the huge resale market for these cars). That high demand led Lexus to produce the cars much more quickly and in the end engineering and build quality suffered tremendously. I sincerely hope that the future generations of the Ls460 are improved but from what I have read they haven’t changed much, only time will tell how they hold up.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,846
Likes: 117
From: Sacramento, CA
I bought my 2008 LS460 with rare comfort plus package with 90K miles in 2017 for $15,800. I did all the following repairs below over the 2 1/2 year of ownership. I needed to do the trunk latch motor, Radiator and Hid bulbs a few months after ownership. Everything underlined was mandatory maintenance repairs. Everything else was me spending over months to make the Ls460 drive like new. My total Labor cost was $185!! Now imagine what the total cost would be for someone that could not do any of the work and went to the Lexus dealership or had no close relationship with a reliable mechanic.
I walked away from my LS460 Sept 2019 for $12,800. I decided to jump ship before the value really plummets and major repairs cost like the brake actuator starts to pop up keeping it a few years more. Yes, you get a lot of car for the money buying a used LS460 but at 10+ years old you have to ask yourself, do you want to spend the time and money repairing failing wear and tear parts or buy something newer and not as luxurious but with less of a concern for repairs for the next few years. Some members recently purchase 2013+ LS460 nearing 100K and well over 100K miles for mid to high $20K . For that budget I would buy a 2018 Toyota Camry V6 XSE with around 30K to 40k miles for around $23K.
I walked away from my LS460 Sept 2019 for $12,800. I decided to jump ship before the value really plummets and major repairs cost like the brake actuator starts to pop up keeping it a few years more. Yes, you get a lot of car for the money buying a used LS460 but at 10+ years old you have to ask yourself, do you want to spend the time and money repairing failing wear and tear parts or buy something newer and not as luxurious but with less of a concern for repairs for the next few years. Some members recently purchase 2013+ LS460 nearing 100K and well over 100K miles for mid to high $20K . For that budget I would buy a 2018 Toyota Camry V6 XSE with around 30K to 40k miles for around $23K.
He enjoyed the extra amenities and build quality of the LS. I don't think he would have a problem paying for maintenance. He came into the bank and plopped down $22K in cash and showed me his collection of Harleys and other cars while we waited for the bank teller to get things sorted out. A week after the sale he sent me a photo of the car after he had it ceramic coated. He was happy with his choice over the Camry (no offense to Camries). I am glad the car went to someone that truly appreciates it (and can manage the cost of ownership).
The irony is, I could have saved some time and sold it for the same $22K two months earlier. I held out thinking I could get more for the car, but also because I didnt think the first guy offering $22K was the right fit. For him, it would have been a stretch and struggle to afford, and I certainly wasn't going to take him up on his offer to transfer title to his name while he made payments to me. I did the first guy a favor by not selling our LS to him. The LS was in perfect working order but I could tell this guy, and his wife and son, could not afford anything to go wrong. I don't even know if he could afford to properly insure the car. A used Camry would be a wiser decision for him and his family. I don't mean to disparage the first buyer, but if I was in his shoes I know I can't afford to maintain that level LS.
Last edited by FatherTo1; Feb 6, 2020 at 10:14 PM.
So I have to chime in as I recently dumped my 09 Ls460 for an 09 gx470.
I purchased an 09ls460 with 75k miles in 2018 for 16k, I felt I got a good deal, I did my research and knew going in there would be some repairs, I was not prepared for how fast they would come on. I replaced the radiator myself, fine, not a bad job, I paid an Indy mechanic to install all front control arms (beck Arnely, they only lasted 15k miles before they started creaking again, and I ensured they were all torqued while loaded as I did this myself as soon as I got home to be safe)
Then the real fun began, my brake actuator failed $2800 repair, my motor mounts were beginning to fail estimates were $1800 - $3000 (there is no easy way to replace these $150 dollar parts), and I was nervous about the starter going next, some days the car was slow to start and battery & alternator amperage was fine.
In the end while I know you have to pay to play, the cost to play with the Ls460 is WAY to high for the value of the car you own. And values continue to plumet.
The whole time I had this car, my wife drove an 06 gx470, currently has 180k miles on it. Every time I got in her car I could feel the difference in quality, design, materials. Yes a truck with that many miles needs work too, however it’s WAY less severe compared to the maintenance and repairs on an LS460, we have driven the truck for 80k.
I am also glad to hear others seem to agree the LS430 was much better when it comes to reliability and materials.
I bought my 460 when originally looking for a 430. I found a 460 at what I get was a great deal but I really just bought someone else’s problem.
Every time I drove the 460 in the final days I felt the lack of Lexus quality, from the melted glue trap panels (thanks Lexus for replacing after a class action suit threat) to the cheap feel of the leather, to the creaking suspension, to the rock of the motor due to failing motor mounts, to the gas fume smell when you decide you want to feel the power (Lexus claims this is due to the catalytic converters releasing carbon) to the oil leaks from a Lexus motor with less than 100k miles. I was over it, way over it, the first opportunity I had to get out of the car I took it when I got the right price for it. I traded the car for an 09 gx470 with 98k miles and could not be happier, yes it’s not a sporty car but it is so much more comfortable and the quality is definitely there as the 09 was the last model year of the first gen design for the GX. All things considered I am personally convinced that Lexus missed the mark on the ls460, I feel strongly that the popularity of the 430 led to high demand of the 460 (hence the huge resale market for these cars). That high demand led Lexus to produce the cars much more quickly and in the end engineering and build quality suffered tremendously. I sincerely hope that the future generations of the Ls460 are improved but from what I have read they haven’t changed much, only time will tell how they hold up.
I purchased an 09ls460 with 75k miles in 2018 for 16k, I felt I got a good deal, I did my research and knew going in there would be some repairs, I was not prepared for how fast they would come on. I replaced the radiator myself, fine, not a bad job, I paid an Indy mechanic to install all front control arms (beck Arnely, they only lasted 15k miles before they started creaking again, and I ensured they were all torqued while loaded as I did this myself as soon as I got home to be safe)
Then the real fun began, my brake actuator failed $2800 repair, my motor mounts were beginning to fail estimates were $1800 - $3000 (there is no easy way to replace these $150 dollar parts), and I was nervous about the starter going next, some days the car was slow to start and battery & alternator amperage was fine.
In the end while I know you have to pay to play, the cost to play with the Ls460 is WAY to high for the value of the car you own. And values continue to plumet.
The whole time I had this car, my wife drove an 06 gx470, currently has 180k miles on it. Every time I got in her car I could feel the difference in quality, design, materials. Yes a truck with that many miles needs work too, however it’s WAY less severe compared to the maintenance and repairs on an LS460, we have driven the truck for 80k.
I am also glad to hear others seem to agree the LS430 was much better when it comes to reliability and materials.
I bought my 460 when originally looking for a 430. I found a 460 at what I get was a great deal but I really just bought someone else’s problem.
Every time I drove the 460 in the final days I felt the lack of Lexus quality, from the melted glue trap panels (thanks Lexus for replacing after a class action suit threat) to the cheap feel of the leather, to the creaking suspension, to the rock of the motor due to failing motor mounts, to the gas fume smell when you decide you want to feel the power (Lexus claims this is due to the catalytic converters releasing carbon) to the oil leaks from a Lexus motor with less than 100k miles. I was over it, way over it, the first opportunity I had to get out of the car I took it when I got the right price for it. I traded the car for an 09 gx470 with 98k miles and could not be happier, yes it’s not a sporty car but it is so much more comfortable and the quality is definitely there as the 09 was the last model year of the first gen design for the GX. All things considered I am personally convinced that Lexus missed the mark on the ls460, I feel strongly that the popularity of the 430 led to high demand of the 460 (hence the huge resale market for these cars). That high demand led Lexus to produce the cars much more quickly and in the end engineering and build quality suffered tremendously. I sincerely hope that the future generations of the Ls460 are improved but from what I have read they haven’t changed much, only time will tell how they hold up.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 47
Likes: 14
From: Texas
I have to disagree with your opinion of the 460 but not YOUR particular experience with the one you owned. I would also be pissed if I had all those things go wrong. While the 430 might have been built with some better materials and was a solid car for it's time any 430 that you buy today would most likely come with bad door actuators, mirror motors, a faulty drivers side O2 sensor which would be challenging to change, timing belt as well as the starter motor being in the most challenging place to change just to name a few. The melting interior and brake actuator on the 460 are the things that are probably the most disappointing things to repair IMO. The controls arms are an issue if you go to the dealer or have AWD in which case the front lowers are a dealer part since there seems to be no aftermarket support. I changed the uppers with Febest arms 25k miles ago at under $100 and still no problems. I recently changed the lowers with 1AAuto arms for $230 for all 4 and while that was a little more challenging it was completely doable. The engine and transmission in the 460 seem to be just as solid as the 400 and 430. You feel how you feel and I'm not trying to change that.
I also fully agree with you, the motor and transmission are great, I even said that the day I traded the car in. However all the other necessary components, suspension, brakes, starter, mounts, interior materials. What actually makes the car comfortable and a “Lexus” are big disappointments. Accompany that with the fact the ls460s are not holding their value and all and it just doesn’t make sense to keep one unless you plan to drive it until it dies which likely will be a very long time given the dependability of the motor and transmission on those cars. For those reasons I had to decide to part with it.
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 667
Likes: 80
From: New Jersey
A WELL maintained “older" LS is a good deal and it will last with normal wear repair cost.
A "older" LS that has NOT been maintained is a bad deal..... Beware of these "polished turds" that have not been maintained UNTIL the owner decides to sell the car. (EG: New tires, full interior/exterior detailing, no record of maintenance done, etc.)
BTW! Buying ANY used car will come with repair costs but a Lexus does have pricey parts and they are difficult to work on with the exception of minor repairs like brakes and oil changes BUT overall it is a well made dependable car.
Once ANY modern car starts having Electrical problems it most likely has to go to the dealer and this will most likely get very costly........ Especially older cars.
A "older" LS that has NOT been maintained is a bad deal..... Beware of these "polished turds" that have not been maintained UNTIL the owner decides to sell the car. (EG: New tires, full interior/exterior detailing, no record of maintenance done, etc.)
BTW! Buying ANY used car will come with repair costs but a Lexus does have pricey parts and they are difficult to work on with the exception of minor repairs like brakes and oil changes BUT overall it is a well made dependable car.
Once ANY modern car starts having Electrical problems it most likely has to go to the dealer and this will most likely get very costly........ Especially older cars.
Driver
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 113
Likes: 18
From: qc
How long should one drive a possible LS before actually buying, to rule out possible problems/codes that have been cleared but will pop back again?
Is it even possible to notice these in a test drive
I imagine some codes can disappear for longer than a week, as I always seem to see posts of someone who bought one, and a week later, starts noticing issues.
I wonder if doing a long test drive, including a couple of starts stops, and time for the engine to cool down and getting it up to temps at least 2 times might help? For reasons like this, I might want to buy locally so I can try it over more than a single day, as if problems are to reappear at some point, I'd hope that they do before actually paying a couple of thousands for the car! (Im looking to pay between 8 and 15k canadian for an LS, theres plenty in that price range with under 250K kilometres!)
Is it even possible to notice these in a test drive
I imagine some codes can disappear for longer than a week, as I always seem to see posts of someone who bought one, and a week later, starts noticing issues.
I wonder if doing a long test drive, including a couple of starts stops, and time for the engine to cool down and getting it up to temps at least 2 times might help? For reasons like this, I might want to buy locally so I can try it over more than a single day, as if problems are to reappear at some point, I'd hope that they do before actually paying a couple of thousands for the car! (Im looking to pay between 8 and 15k canadian for an LS, theres plenty in that price range with under 250K kilometres!)
I think that you should at least have the car on a lift to check the underside and control arm bushings for cracks as well as the other suspension parts. If the arms are in the beginning stages of failure a test drive will not exposes this and if the seller has went through the trouble of resetting DTCs or pulling fuses they will just do this again after every test drive. If your not going to get a thorough PPI done then you really need to look at the general appearance of the car to see how the PO took care of it as well as checking the history on the Lexus Driver website. These are your best weapons against buying a problematic car plus you always have to be willing to walk away from those seemingly great deals.