Hello,

Here's my sad story, I hope someone can give me any advice:
I bought 07' LS460 in February 2016. Seemed to be in good condition, only one owner and done about 150k kilometers. But the first thing that started troubling me in spring was the VSC and PCS warning lights that came on the dashboard couple of times a month. I replaced the battery because I thought the error might be related to that. Unfortunately it did not help and the warning lights started to appear more often. I then went to the dealer to check what was causing the error. They said it was exhaust fumes releated (oxygen sensor false readings) and it was because there were a leaks in the exhaust. They replaced some exhaust seals. Next day after picking up my car the same error lights lit up. I called the dealer and they said we should replace the oxygen sensor (next thing to do with this error code in LS460 repair manual) though the electrician said that the sensor readings were okay after replacing the seals. I told them I don't want to replace the sensors because there is no evidence that they are not working correctly and they cost about 300 euros each. Dealer told that we must wait to see what else might happen to know exactly how to repair the car. Meanwhile the exhaust note had changed a bit. It god louder and louder with every day. One day I started hearing a quiet clicking/rattling noise coming from under the car. I heard it sometimes when I accelerated but not all the time. I hoped that it was coming from the exhaust leaks. On Monday I immediately booked a time at the dealership but they had free time only on friday. I didn't have a choice to make some short trips with my car before Friday and at one time the engine started to make a bit of a lumpy sound and next moment died at the middle of the road at 30 km/h. It turned on again, parked it nearby and left it there. Then took it to the dealer on Friday and found out that there was an error code about crankshaft. Also they figured out that there was 1 liter of oil less than required minimum in the engine. Mechanics put the missing amount of oil in the engine and the error code about crankshaft dissapeared (no oil leaks were found). They told me that I can pick up my car and that the weird noise from the engine was gone. Only the exhaust note was really bad because there were some leaks in the mufflers. I picked up the car and thought that the noise was still a bit weird but drove away. I had driven about 10 km when I started to hear the lumpy sound again. I turned around and drove immediately to the dealer. They were already closed so I left the car there for the weekend. I'm gonna give them keys on Monday and want to ask some serious questions. I thought that maybe someone from the forum here can also give me some ideas what is wrong with my car.

Some questions that came to my mind: Why doesn't LS show when there is too little oil in the engine? Where is check oil warning light? How can a dealership allow me to drive my car away when there is clearly something wrong with the engine? How can the exhaust have leaks/holes in it? (it's only 10 years old premium class car) What else can cause the VSC/PCS system error?

Sorry for a long post and for so many questions.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can help me.

 

There have been views (149) on this and it appears not many solutions offered. Maybe you should take a look at the service history of the car to see if someone else tried to address these issues in the past. Sometimes the paperwork tells the story the techs can't diagnose.

 

I cannot offer a solution. But it sounds like your dealership service staff are fairly close to useless. An exhaust leak in the muffler may result in some sound differences, but it wouldn't prevent the vehicle from running. Nor would it cause the engine to fail, or stall. I'm no expert on the exhaust sensors, other guys on here know a lot more about that than I do. But I think if an exhaust sensor failed, the car would continue to run, but be in an open loop (or is it closed loop) setting. Likely it would fail and cause it to run in an overly rich setting. Which would reduce your power a bit and achieve lower fuel economy ... not to mention set off lights on the dash and cause fault codes.

Here's my best GUESS. Based on your description (getting worse, hearing exhaust noise, stalling, error lights), it sounds as if something may be plugging your exhaust system. What would plug an exhaust system? A failed catalyst would / could do that. A failed catalyst that is beginning to plug up your exhaust system (I believe) would throw off the exhaust flow enough to a) make your sensors always read either too rich or too lean and set off a code and cause an error light on the dash, b) certainly create a loss in power, c) would cause your engine to stall if the clog is bad enough, d) would likely cause your exhaust to have a weird sound, e) would cause leaks at joints prior to the failed exhaust, and f) a cat failure slowly gets worse until it is noticeable from a) through e).

Bear in mind ... this is just what I *THINK*. A dealer should be able to figure this out though...

 

About the oil...it is not uncommon to loose a bit of oil in the LS, so don't let that trouble you too much unless it becomes excessive (i.e. adding more than a qt between 5000km oil changes). Further, 7milesout has very sound advice. You can check the health of your catalytic converter(cat) by bringing the car up to temp and then test the temp before and after the cat. The temperature should be 180+ degrees higher after the cat. Also, any rattling from the cat is a failed cat.

temp detector:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lase...R0mZhtfRz1M%3A

 

FWIW, I had a noise in my exhaust system which I thought was just a loose hanger or whatever. The car had about 100k kms (60k miles) at the time. One day, I decided to remove the mufflers to see how the car sounded without them (there was a thread going on at the time that discussed muffler deletes). Anyway, when I started to remove one of the mufflers/tail pipes, I heard what sounded like water swooshing around in them. When I removed the mufflers, there was about a gallon of water in them and the tops of the mufflers had large corroded holes. You could not see the holes from underneath. Only when removing them could you see the massive amounts of corrosion. It cost me about 500 bucks to have a local muffler shop replace them. I used aftermarket mufflers that had to be custom fitted. I believe the ones they used were from a later model Chevrolet Cavalier GT which closely resembled the LS460 in size, dimension and configuration. There were no specific LS460 replacements. Here is the thread I started which was about two years ago:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...-mufflers.html

 

Thank you all for replies!

I have an update on the situation regarding my LS460. The story gets a lot worse than it was when I started the thread. They checked with the computer and found many errors that were hinting for a streched engine chain. That was their best bet. 2700 euros was the estimate cost of the replacement of the chain and the tensioners and so on. They explained that the tensioners work on oil pressure and when pressure drops the chain becomes loose and might get streched and then both sides of the engine will go out of sync. That's what the error codes suggested. I agreed with their offer to change the chain.

Two weeks later the parts arrive and they start to take the car apart. Immediately they call me to say that the oil pan under the car is full of metal particles. Something has worn out in the engine. Also the exhaust manifolds are completly broken, including the valves and the catalysts. They also noticed that one part of the VVT-i system was bent. 7milesout, you were completely right about the catalyst part. Anyway they said that damage is beyond repairable and the only way out is to replace the engine. I asked what was the cause of all this damage and they couldn't tell me because so many parts were broken. Basic explanation would be that oil leaked to the combustion chambers and from there to the exhaust and melted the cats. What caused the leak and from where exactly the metal particles came is still not known - when I asked the dealer they said that they are not a valid expertise company. The dealer thought that there's no point of taking the engine more apart because it's totaled and because they would have to charge me for that.

Today they sent me a quotation for the engine and exhaust replacement which would set me back almost 10 000 euros. They found a used engine that costs 4000 euros, has done about 150k km and is in England. I'm not sure what to do because at best the car is worth about 18 000 - 20 000 euros. There doesn't seem to be a cheap way out. I also wrote a official letter to the dealer because there is like a 1% chance that the manufacturer in Japan (Toyota) would compensate some of the expense regarding the engine failure. I'm pretty sure that the problem might with some prematurely worn engine parts because the history of the car is documented and the car has been serviced correctly and regularly. Problem is that the dealer nor the manufacturer wouldn't want to admit to that.

 

Well that sucks. This is the first post I've seen regarding engine failure. It's unfortunate that you are in Europe, as there are many engines available here for between 2k-4k dollars....a fraction of what you were quoted.

Hope things work out for you. Keep us informed on what progresses.

 

I had to look up Harju, I had no idea where that was. Firstly, I'm shocked there is even a dealership there. Lexus is not very big in even western Europe, who knew they were in Estonia.

I wish I had some words of encouragement, but you really seem to be in a mess. I am hoping they are accurately diagnosing the problem correctly. However, from everything you describe, it sounds like it is a total engine failure.

Even though it is a 2007 and obviously way out of warranty, it wouldn't hurt to contact Lexus Corporate. Tell them the whole story, pretty much copy and paste what you have written here, and ask what they can do for you. You never know what they might do for you. I once had a major transmission failure on my wife's 1987 Saab outside of warranty. I contacted their corporate office and they agreed to pay the labor ($800) if I paid the parts ($280). It was a deal!

You may also want to post your situation in this forum - https://www.clublexus.com/forums/lex...r-service-271/

Good luck to you and please keep us informed.

 

Thanks again for your advice and support. Unfortunately there aren't that much options in Europe not to mention in Estonia for finding used parts for good price. Today Lexus dealer sent me an e-mail saying they will discuss my situation with the manufacturer and let me know by the end of the week.

 

I wouldn't rely on the dealer to contact the manufacturer. You should do it yourself. You cannot control what the dealership tells Lexus.

 

I know that this is not the ideal way to communicate with the manufacturer but I tried to look up an e-mail for Lexus Europe/International and it tries to direct me to the local dealer in Estonia. So I'm not sure to what address exactly should I write.

 

..... hope it may be of help....

 

ChrisM2 - I would have rather been wrong and it have been a simple repair. I've been wondering what it would be like to slowly and meticulously build up an LS3 and have it available to slip into the LS if it ever did blow up an engine. Probably way more hassle than it would be worth, and I'd probably be 90 years old and forgot I had built the LS3 when the engine did finally blow up.

 

Hi again and happy holidays to everyone,

I just wanted to update the thread that I got my car back last week. We found a compromise with the dealer and they swapped the failed engine for a low milage one from UK. It seems that the engine is in good condition and has got plenty of horses, I also got new catalysts and the bill was about 4000 euros + VAT. The dealer ultimately covered some of the expenses.

Anyway that's where the good news stops. Yesterday I encountered an error with the air suspension. Front right corner dropped to the ground during driving. Fortunately I noticed right away and didn't damage the front fender. The front right tire's upper side was totally covered by the fender so I couldn't make a hard turn left or right. I switched off the engine and when I turned the car back on, the front right corner rose to the correct height again but soon it happened again. Now it's parked in front of the house and the corner is still down. I noticed that the right back corner was also slightly lower than the left side. The height high button only works on the left side but when I wait for 10 minutes with the engine off, the right side rises again and works normally for some time. I think the bags are okay because the dealer has checked them and I have already changed front left one. But I remember something about the height sensors and that they might need replacing. Does anyone have other ideas what could be the issue here?

Thanks!

 

That's amazing that you got Lexus to cover most of the costs for an engine replacement when the car is 10 years old, especially way out in Estonia, that's really cool

I am always suspect though when I hear these stories...a simple vsc light leads you to bring the car into the dealer.. and your car goes from having a minor issue to a full blown engine failure , and we are supposed to take their word on it.

Now you get the car back and the air suspension has given out ....... Id really stop bringing my car into these guys.

(disclaimer- I hate most mechanics, and do not trust them , so my opinion may be a little biased)