From eight to twelve
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 775
Likes: 7
From: WA
From eight to twelve
I've posted here in the past that I was looking into perhaps get a 12 cylinder car, after I eventually sell my LS. Does anyone have any information and/or opinion on the quality and reliability of the 2013 Audi A8-L W12 6.3 ? And is this engine the same that is used in the Bentleys?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 4
From: MI
I know Bentley does use W12 engines, and you know how much VW likes to share (I believe the V10 S8 was loosely based off the Gallardo a few yrs back) so I imagine it's at least based off a Bentley engine if not very similar to one.
On a side note, wow that's awesome! I've always wanted a 12-cyl car...someday lol. There's something about having those extra 4 cyl that adds that extra prestige
. Good luck on your search man, if you end with something new please post some pics so I can drool a bit!
On a side note, wow that's awesome! I've always wanted a 12-cyl car...someday lol. There's something about having those extra 4 cyl that adds that extra prestige
. Good luck on your search man, if you end with something new please post some pics so I can drool a bit!
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 618
Likes: 135
From: IL
DON'T DO IT!
Nobody makes a reliable 12 cylinder car. BMW 750iL was a nightmare of complexity, MB S600 has turbo leaks, coilpack problems and ABC suspension hose issues, Jag (back in the 1980s) cooked everything under the hood, every engine repair on the Audi requires dropping the engine out, etc. You have to be a masochist to own a V12 luxury car.
Nobody makes a reliable 12 cylinder car. BMW 750iL was a nightmare of complexity, MB S600 has turbo leaks, coilpack problems and ABC suspension hose issues, Jag (back in the 1980s) cooked everything under the hood, every engine repair on the Audi requires dropping the engine out, etc. You have to be a masochist to own a V12 luxury car.
I almost bought one, not the s600 but the cl600 V12 twin turbo which is the same engine.
The main problem is the coil packs, which are cheaply made and cost about $1000-$1200 each side, they will break and you will be dealing with them sooner or later.
Then theres the usual Mercedes electronics and sensor issues, which will keep you busy in between your coil pack failures.
Mechanically they are fine, you will almost never hear of a Mercedes engine blowing or needing to be rebuilt , but they just cost an arm and a leg to keep running.
Id still like to get one, but it would have to be a time when I don't care so much about money anmd have a lot of ti to throw around, the power of 500HP was amazing, and a quick ECU reflash will net you another 120 HP , pushing you to 620hp.
Trending Topics
Racer
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 45
From: Maryland
V12 were king and it has more to do with the configuration then the number of cylinders.
The W12 was made for compactness and power but it's firing order is inferior to that of a V12.
A V12 engine is more complex but it also offers a naturally balance motor for smoothness and it is always on a power stroke at any point in time. The quality of power is why you buy a V12 not necessarily peak power. The downside to a V12 is clumsiness of the weight distribution and the complexity of having AWD.
What Toyota has done with the 600 is make the V12 obsolete because they can do even better with torque fill. More manufactures will be doing the same with hybrid technology and the ability to redistribute weight where you want it is superior to the V12.
Toyota makes a very reliable V12 but I'm happy they didn't update it for their premium cars because even they know V12s are outdated.
The W12 was made for compactness and power but it's firing order is inferior to that of a V12.
A V12 engine is more complex but it also offers a naturally balance motor for smoothness and it is always on a power stroke at any point in time. The quality of power is why you buy a V12 not necessarily peak power. The downside to a V12 is clumsiness of the weight distribution and the complexity of having AWD.
What Toyota has done with the 600 is make the V12 obsolete because they can do even better with torque fill. More manufactures will be doing the same with hybrid technology and the ability to redistribute weight where you want it is superior to the V12.
Toyota makes a very reliable V12 but I'm happy they didn't update it for their premium cars because even they know V12s are outdated.
Last edited by Devh; Jun 30, 2015 at 10:05 AM.
ClubLexus Stories
Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe
Lexus NX 350h: A Fuel-Sipping Secret Hot Hatch???
Michael S. Palmer
5 Best & 5 Worst Lexus Daily Drivers
Joe Kucinski
Top 5 Hottest Lexus & Toyotas in 2026 (Hardest To Buy)
Brett Foote
2026 Lexus IS 350 F Sport Review: The Last of Its Kind Still Rocks
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Confusing Things Lexus Has Ever Done!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Lexus ES Review: Lexus Re-Embraces Founding Principles
Michael S. Palmer
10 Lexus Bargains That are Cheaper Than a New Toyota RAV4
Joe Kucinski
8 Weirdest Things Lexus Has Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
10 Lexus Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 15
From: Texas
100 000 miles sure, but where are the 200 000 mile examples?
I almost bought one, not the s600 but the cl600 V12 twin turbo which is the same engine.
The main problem is the coil packs, which are cheaply made and cost about $1000-$1200 each side, they will break and you will be dealing with them sooner or later.
Then theres the usual Mercedes electronics and sensor issues, which will keep you busy in between your coil pack failures.
Mechanically they are fine, you will almost never hear of a Mercedes engine blowing or needing to be rebuilt , but they just cost an arm and a leg to keep running.
Id still like to get one, but it would have to be a time when I don't care so much about money anmd have a lot of ti to throw around, the power of 500HP was amazing, and a quick ECU reflash will net you another 120 HP , pushing you to 620hp.
I almost bought one, not the s600 but the cl600 V12 twin turbo which is the same engine.
The main problem is the coil packs, which are cheaply made and cost about $1000-$1200 each side, they will break and you will be dealing with them sooner or later.
Then theres the usual Mercedes electronics and sensor issues, which will keep you busy in between your coil pack failures.
Mechanically they are fine, you will almost never hear of a Mercedes engine blowing or needing to be rebuilt , but they just cost an arm and a leg to keep running.
Id still like to get one, but it would have to be a time when I don't care so much about money anmd have a lot of ti to throw around, the power of 500HP was amazing, and a quick ECU reflash will net you another 120 HP , pushing you to 620hp.
If you want to buy one, get one through Carmax and get their warranty.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 45
From: Maryland
All things being equal the V12 should prove to be more reliable then a V8 even though there are more moving parts.
If there is any reliability concerns it has a lot more to do with with electronics or poor build construction not the actual fact that it's a V12.
If there is any reliability concerns it has a lot more to do with with electronics or poor build construction not the actual fact that it's a V12.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,423
Likes: 103
From: TX
The '13 Audi w12 should come with the protection of the factory warranty (peace of mind) and you could purchase the extended warranty. The older V-12's (Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, VW) are cheap, plague with issues and extremely expensive to maintain. Owning a Audi W12 would be nice but not close to being reliable as Lexus.
Pole Position
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 377
Likes: 18
From: MN
I also wondered the same about the W12 A8's.. You don't hear too much about them. I'd recommend you check audizine.com or audiworld.com, audiworld is my pick, and ask in the A8 forums I know there are a few W12 owners on Audiworld - there aren't exactly that many A8[L] W12's around. The A8[L] W12 would be considered rare in my book. They typically sell less than 500 a year, some years selling less than 100 cars. I have yet to hear of any horror stories about it though compared to the V10 S8/S6 for example. It's typically all praises about how effortless the delivery of power is and how ultra smooth and quiet it is. Most owners claim regular maintenance with no other issues. The A8 is a phenomenal car all around though and would have been my pick if I didn't decide to get an LS. And since you're going for a 2013 or newer model, you'll be covered by warranty so you should be fine.
Pole Position
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 377
Likes: 18
From: MN
And yes, it's pretty much the same engine from Bentley except on Bentley's they're twin-turbo charged while on the A8L W12, Phaeton, and Toureg they're Naturally Aspirated. The W12 is basically 2 VR6 engines bolted together.
Yes common sense would tell us that V12 would be under less load and therefore last longer, as well as put out more power and torque, but for some reason ive never really heard of a bullet proof 12 cylinder engine, like we do with many of the 8 cyliders.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 15
From: Texas
That's also because V12s are produced at much lower levels and oriented at much different clientele.