Thanks for this. I am glad my 2013 body style is not out of date.

 

IMHO, we're auto enthusiasts. We live for cars, features and dream of the past and future. Unfortunately, we're the "minority." The "majority" on the otherhand is made up of folks that give their new purchases about 14sec beforehand...

BMWs were the ultimate driving machine. They earned the title and held it for quite some time. Now they're living on their reputation and finally (well after it became clear to us) started losing driving comparisons by the auto rags. BMW still has offerings for their core enthusiast buyers, but the company is selling more and more low hp / low sport versions. Why do they continue to sell more and more cars? The "majority" are buying the roundel badge and its inferred cachet.

To keep the "majority" badge buying and increasing their appeal, BMW caters to them with lower prices and higher mpg. Enter the 4cylinders, smaller displacement turbos and diesels. For these "majority" buyers, it's less of "what they wanted" and more of "what they could afford" with the fancy badge.

It's not just BMW. It's nearly every lux nameplate, including our favorite Lexus. The vast majority of manufacturers continue to reach lower and lower to find more buyers rather than aspiring for more higher-end buyers. I don't fault them for chasing dollars, but am saddened as an enthusiast to see reasonably priced, higher zoot cars become less and less important to their strategy.

As manufacturers grow larger and larger, I think the value of niche offerings declines. There's increasingly less room for low volume, slow selling cars (see GS430/460). They need vanilla that appeals to the "majority." On the otherhand, BMW seems to be offering loads and loads of nichey cars - though they're significantly smaller than Toyo/Lexus.

 

More importantly and more on topic, what's the latest rumors these days on the re-designed LS?

When - Is it still on track for 2017? It's not like the re-design in '13 is exactly brand new anymore.

What on the powertrain - When did the 4.6L debut? Is it a bigger version of the 4.3L? Sure it's smooth, but my contention is that it's "ancient." Sure it's got displacement, but comparatively little hp and torque while guzzling gas. The LS is in desperate need of a modern power plant to be proud of and to become competitive.

I can foresee two powerplants on the option list like today, but not 3: one as a std and the other as a hybrid. With respect to the std offering, I hope Lexus steals the GS-F powerplant. While it may or may not be an engineering marvel, it would likely deliver competitive performance (but not mpg). I see where posters are coming from with a desire to see twin turbos for the LS, but do you really think they'd debut something brand new and untested in their top dog? I like the idea of bringing cutting edge tech developments to the LS, but I don't think it applies to the powertrain considering a risk / reward analysis.

As a final note on CAFE, the LS probably doesn't matter a hill of beans on their corporate avg. A better mpg avg would be nice, but immaterial. The GS-F powerplant would accomplish this.

Just my uninformed $0.02. What do the experts think?

[Disclosure: I really, really want to be a Lexus owner again. I'm a Lexus homer, but there's not a single product that would bring me back today. I toy with the idea of getting the beautiful >'13 LS, but a relevant powerplant paired with awd could turn me from loving to owning.]

 

From Wiki:

"1UR-FSE

The 1UR-FSE V8 engine, introduced with the Lexus LS 460 & LS 460 L luxury sedans in 2006 has a 4.6 liter (4608cc) displacement, which it gets from a 94 mm bore and 83 mm stroke. The engine includes D4-S direct injection and dual VVT-iE producing 385 hp (287 kW) at 6,400 rpm and 51 kg·m (500 N·m; 369 lb·ft) at 4,100 rpm.

1UR-FSE undergoes X-ray inspection and a CT (computed tomography) scan to ensure minimal deformation after the die-casting process. Camshafts are hollow to minimize weight."

 

Yes.

The 4.6 came in with the LS460 in 2006. It's not as powerful as the turbo V8s the Germans are packing these days, but the LS460 isn't as expensive as the cars with those turbo V8s either. It's competing directly with the turbo six versions of the A8 and 7-series. It's got a bit more power and a bit less torque than those cars, and similar fuel economy (it's not a gas guzzler at all for a large luxury sedan). Technologically, it's still very modern. With the upgrade to 5.0 liters and minor updates it will do fine in its price class. If Lexus wants to compete in the $125k+ class, it needs something more, but so far it hasn't shown any wish to go there.

In the long term, Toyota has already said turbos are coming. I think the LS of the early 2020s will have three powertrains: V6 hybrid (which can be super-quiet and is more than enough for the large number of these cars used in chauffeur and livery service), V6 turbo, and a higher-end option to be determined. I don't think Toyota has the volume to justify a turbo V8. The top option could be a bigger NA V8, a V8 hybrid like the 600h (but with updated tech), or a V6 turbo hybrid.

 

If Lexus offers a V6 turbo hybrid in 2020 they would only be 5 years behind Acura...

 

Acura doesn't have a vehicle that competes in the same class as the LS.

 

That's for sure. One of my partners recently bought a top of the line Acura, but it's way behind than even my '08.... It's not even close. It's a nice car, really nice, but different class altogether.

 

The RLX hybrid is quicker to 60, abuses the slalom, and yields better gas mileage. The tests compare RLX handling to the 350z. Who wants to discuss class? the LS600 has more wood paneling (got that out the way)

 

The RLX hybrid is nothing like the LS. Its FWD, which is the biggest issue. Even with Acura's AWD system, the difference between the look, feel of the car with a transverse front heavy layout and the RWD setup in the LS is huge.

I drove the RLX, not the hybrid but the regular RLX. Its nothing like the LS, nowhere near as smooth, quiet, substantial, refined as the LS, the interior is nowhere near as nicely appointed. Its not in the same league as any of the flagship cars...its really basically like a big TL. Its a nice car, but less car than the LS at commensurately less cost.

The RLX is very similar to the Cadillac XTS. For that money I'd rather have a Hyundai Equus or a Kia K900 if I wanted a big car, or a GS.

 

The FWD RLX is an ES competitor that is unfortunately overpriced--it would sell fine if it were priced across from a loaded ES. The hybrid RLX is a bit of a different beast. You can make an argument that it competes more closely with the GS 450h than anything else. But it's not like a LS. It's smaller, sportier, more athletic, and less comfortable.

 

Mercedes will state the same thing: more substantial than a LS. But, the LS is a marvelous rear wheel drive example. The LS600 is a beautifully appointed machine. However at half the price an RLXH yields measurable performance #s. Whereas the A8 holds

 

Mercedes will state the same thing: more substantial than a LS. But, the LS is a marvelous rear wheel drive example. However, when discussing next generation, year "2020" power: Acura has a Twin turbo v6 today. Class and feelings can be discussed without a conclusion.

 

None of this means anything. The RLX is $20,000 cheaper than the LS, its a completely different engine/powertrain layout, and competes in an entirely different price and demographic segment than the LS.

The S Class and the LS are competitors in that they compete in similar price categories depending on equipment, they are both RWD/longditudinal layouts.

The RLX and LS are not competitors, nor does the RLX compete with any of the other flagship cars, A8, 7 Series, S Class, XJ, so on and so forth. End of story.

 

Do you know cars or are you refuting as an emotional reflex? The basics of claimed luxury sedans is they all compete. The Hyundai Equus is 30k cheaper but competes with the S550. The A8 is AWD only but competes with the S. Cost and layouts are not the endpoint.

That Acura v6hybrid is aimed square at LS6 buyers/the game is better performance and reliability for less.

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