Maurice

My lease on my 04 LS430 is up in 30 days. Trying to decide on a new lease.
Narrowed it down to MB S550 - MSRP $92K or SWB LS460 MSRP $72K+. I have been quoted by my car broker around $1,250 for the LS and around $1,450 for the S550. (36 monts, low mileage, good credit, about $1K off on the LS about $5K off on the MB). Similarly equiped in regards to rear camera, blue tooth, no distronic or radar distace, no night vision, bot keyless entry.

Pro's (for me) on the LS
* Much better NAV - touch screen and Real Time NAV SAT option
* Reliability - never had a problem with past LS models
* Self parking gimmick looks like fun - but I will likely not use this much
* Smaller - (Do not need LWB)
* Loved the car in a test drive

Pro's (for me) on the S550
* Trunk closer works from inside
* True iPod interface (I know about the 30GB in the LS)
* Better handlng or at least feel
* I think the car looks better
* NAV and phone not locked when moving (I know about voice - but this one is a big factor as I use the override on the LS430 now and no known override yet on the LS460)
* Loved the car in a test drive

Whike $200 a month X 36 months matter - it is not a deciding factor. If I take the MB my concern is that I will miss the fantastic NAV on the Lexus, but will love controlling the iPod from the wheel and better hndling on the MB. If I go with the LS I may hate the locking of the interface when moving and having to control the Ipod directly. I have owned 3 Lexus cars - never owned a Mercedes. I hated the 3 year lease on a JAG XK8 - mostly the dealer and the company.

I know this is the Lexus forum - but would welcome comments pro and con.

Thanks

encore888

Well since you loved both cars on the test drive, it comes down to the detail pros and cons, which you listed, but also which one 'feels right' to you. Both are excellent choices, but you can have only one. So which one 'feels' that it matches you better this time?

With regards to the NAVI and phone locking, I would ask where this was a major problem with the LS 430. With the Gen V NAVI in the LS 460 you can voice dial while in motion or use voice prompts (you can train the system to recognize your voice command for a particular phone number). Also the available phonebook is much larger.

I suppose you have a good experience with the COMAND system vs. the Lexus touchscreen? And the iPod controls I guess are fairly important...IIRC the S-class also has a HDD system and/or a card reader.

I also see that you've never owned a Mercedes, so maybe you might want to try something new, after all having Lexus cars all the time might make you more and more curious about competing brands. Of course, both cars are very new so it's hard to say how well they will stack up over time. Then again, Lexus has been your home for many years, and I take it has proven itself?

A difficult choice--but you can't go wrong with either! Of course, when you pull the trigger hopefully you will be satisified that you have searched both vehicles carefully and made a choice that works for you.

Good luck on your decision!

Helmar

Last year, I switched from an '03 LS430 to an '06 BMW, and have regretted it. I'll be back in a 600hL in Feb 08.

1. The BMW has been in the shop 3 times. Once I had to pay for. My Lexus never was in the shop (except for routine maintenance). I just don't trust the BMW. I expect that this is a generic issue between Japanese cars and German cars.

2. You can LEARN to use the iDrive/COMAND system fairly quickly, but USING it is very intrusive. Many times that the **** is pushed/pulled/twisted/turned nothing happens for up to 20 seconds. You have to wait, glancing back and forth between the road and the screen until the action completes and you can proceed with the NEXT push/pull/twist/turn.

Also, many features of the navigation system can only be implemented well with a touch screen, such as scrolling around the map, or being able to touch a displayed icon to see to item's name and phone number, or touching another area of the map to see how far away it is. Other features are just implemented better on the Lexus, such as marking your current location and sorting points of interest in different ways.

The only thing that's MUCH better on the BMW is the voice recognition system. This was fairly useless on the LS430.

3. The BMW is sportier, but I much prefer the ride and sound levels in the Lexus. To me, a non-professional driver on ordinary streets, I don't notice handling differences, other than the Lexus leaned more. Once in a blue moon I may try stretching it, but even then, (to me) any differences were slight. I sure do feel ALL of the the road bumps more in the BMW.

HBH

dfiorito

As a Neurotic Fanatic, I can clearly state that whichever you get, you will think you should have gotten the other one.

Sorry - It is just the way it is......

Helmar

I understand what you're saying, but I'll have to disagree with you!

When I discard my BMW and pick up my 600hL, I doubt I'll ever look back.

After owning two LS's, ('99 LS400 and '03 LS430), this time I plan on using a Lexus feature I've never fully exercised.... Reliability. I plan on keeping the 600hL for at least 6 years.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

If you plan to keep the car for a long time, get the LS460. It's reliablity will keep you happy for a very long time.

But if you plan to lease the car for a couple of years, splurge on the S550. You won't have to deal with (too much of) the reliablity issues in the long run.

srcada

iTrader: (1)

After owning 2 LS's and always wanting an s55 I bought one about 1.5 years ago, the car was so unreliable I was almost in tears as I looked at my $90,000 in the garage. To make a long story short I traded it back in to the Mercedes dealer for my old LS which they still had on the lot, lost alot of money and haven't regretted it since. I love the way the s600 looks/performs but I need to know that I'm not going to be driving a loaner car 15 times a year which is why I ordered the LS600h last January and should be getting it in June.

iobidder

Completely Agree!

That would almost negate your last comment.

acecert

You forgot one more "pro" to the LS...maintenance costs are lower (when and if you have to have the LS serviced) :-) My experience w/ Mercedes was the same as mentioned above...lots of problems. From what you have said, some of your Pros on the MB negate some of the items you mention on the LS..such as the IPod...if you can load them up to the LS system, (as you mentioned you know) you won't need an Ipod. Good Luck to you...after all, they are competitors. Something in one is undoubtedly going to end up being better in the other and vice-versa. You'll have to weigh in on your values on the items you mentioned so that you can more clearly see what is useful/meaningful to you most. For instance, the trunk closer comment in the MB...would you find yourself needing that feature that often? If you were most often getting something out of the trunk yourself it wouldn't be an issue to push the button on the trunk before you leave...that's assuming that you are getting things out most of the time and someone else isn't doing it for you while you are in the car. As far as handling..how do you drive and what type of roads do you typically drive on? If the handling is better on the MB but you typically drive on straight roads and don't typically gun it around corners, handling doesn't become an everyday issue but may come into play if you feel the MB would be safter in an accident avoidance situation. I do understand what you are saying about the Nav comparison...it is so much an integrated part of what you do while driving and my former 7 BMW had a great voice recognition system..something I can't say for the LS because of its design through the menu configuration of having to keep pressing the voice switch instead of it automatically prompting you after you hit the switch the first time. Fortunately, when you know the menus, you can then begin interrupting her by pressing it as soon as she opens her mouth (which speeds things up). While some have complained in the LS that she doesn't do a good job of understanding, I haven't experienced that issue. Self parking as a plus in the LS? Again..you have to ask yourself how much you use it and if its truly a "pro". I find that most like talking about it and playing with it rather than it really being all that of a continual and useful need. Probably where you are going to struggle the most (if you are anything like a lot of people on the forum) is if you like the look of the MB better its going to be a struggle to weigh that out against the other things you find better in the LS. Look seems to a heavy influence on us who enjoy cars.

Like someone else already said, in the end you won't have made a bad decision..they are both nice cars. It's really down to what you will be most pleased with in the end and reminding yourself of that after your purchase. On a final note, maybe the hybrid would also tip the scale for you if you can swing it financially and wait...something to consider. Good luck to you!

Rocman

Any and all problems that I have had my all my MB's were taken cared of by the warranty, so reliability should not be much of a concern on a 36 month lease.
Personally, the Benz is not as nice to me as the LS. This is coming from a guy that has bought 4 55 AMG's in the last 4 years. They are great cars, and you will get slightly better handling in the MB. The only Benz I would buy is an AMG, since you get a real boost in power.

That was not enough to sway me to the MB. Personally, I buy my cars, and I have taken one too many hits on my MB's. Since you are leasing, you will not have that problem. I have had a whole list of little problems with my MB's, but nothing major. My prior LS430 had to have a replacement tranny in the first year, but that was due to a recall. It comes down to preference. For me, the LS was the way to go.

Helmar

Rocman,

You're assuming that the reliability issue is one of money.

For most that can afford these cars (including myself), it's not about the money, it's about taking a few hours out of your day to go to the dealer and then driving a (presumably) inferior car for a few days, and then going back to the dealer to pick up your car.

And (in my case with my BMW), doing this 3 times in the first year.

There's also the reliability issue of being stranded because the car is inoperable.

HBH

Rocman

Actually, the opposite. It is not a matter of money at all. It is inconvenience.
Other's were talking about reliability. I said it would be under warranty anyway, so that would not matter.
For me, it is never a money concern. I don't want to have to take the car in all the time, and I never had a problem with any of my MB's that required me taking the car in all the time. The S550 does not have a track record of being a lemon, while my M5 did, and was horrible to own. That is why I have the LS now.
There is much to be said for a car that will never have to be in the shop, other than for service.

Maurice

Thanks for all the comments.

I drive mostly in the city and under 7,000 miles per year. The trunk closer is a great feature in the MB because often I stop by my building and have them take stuff out. On the LS430 with the engine running the remote will not open the trunk.

The self parking is a toy - I want it - but do not need it. I would prefer to use the iPod rather than reload all my CDs to the Lexus.

Maintenance is not an issue on a 36 month lease with under 20,000 miles. The MB calls for longer mileage intervals. SO I am looking at two or 3 oil changes at most.

Reliability and NAV are the biggest advantages on the Lexus. I need to decide soon in order to source the Black on Black I want.

IndyJeff

This is my first Lexus. Previously I've had a Cadillac STS (serious interior build quality issues - stuff was always breaking, tearing, rattling), a BMW 7-Series (always in the shop for something), and a Mercedes SUV (in the shop a fair amount as well). I can't comment on the reliability yet (no problems after a 5 weeks, unlike all the cars listed above), but these are some the highlights of the LS:

- The smooth, quiet ride with 8-speed transmission
- The Mark Levinson audio system (absolutely amazing - you'll hear details of your favorite music that you've never heard before)
- The smooth, quiet ride with 8-speed transmission
- Best Nav/Bluetooth/Electronics on any car I've seen. I'm a software engineer, so I notice little details in software, and the Nav system is excellent. It's the only one I've ever seen that has nice fonts, transparent overlays of street information (so you can still see the map underneath), intelligent display of street names, and an easy menu system.
- The smooth, quiet ride with 8-speed transmission
- The impeccable fit-and-finish, both inside and outside.

And did I mention the smooth, quiet ride with 8-speed transmission?

My runner-up car was a Mercedes CLS550. My past experiences with MB and BMW (along with some research on the web) made me change my mind. It's not about the money -- having a reliable, trouble-free car is far more important to me.

I also think Mercedes are a bit too ostentatious for my tastes. The LS is an expensive car, but it doesn't scream it into the face of every other person I pass on the street. And I don't like hood ornaments.

EyeKutr

iTrader: (5)

Does the LS with SWb have self parking assist? I thought it was the LWB option only...Also you do know you can get an ipod adapter to fully integrate very nicely.....VAIS sells it, very reasonable.