I have a 2008 LS460 (Obsidian with white interior) with 94k that I’ve owned since 2011. Other than an issue with the ML head unit, it has been a flawless car, and I’ve maintained it well. It runs like a new car and I recently put four Michelin CrossClimate tires on it. While I love the car, I’m also a 73-year-old retiree who misses the many driving enhancements, convenience and safety features that (even) my new Subaru Forester Touring has. I’m considering replacing the LS, but I’ve test driven and don’t like the new LS models. I like the Audi A8, BMW 7 and Mercedes S, but I don’t want to buy any of them due to high maintenance costs and low reliability figures. I have considered leasing one of those models, but I’m more comfortable buying a reliable car and having equity a few more years down the road. Do you think that the ES350 Ultra Luxury with all options on it would be a wise way to go? I know that it’s not in the same league as the bigger German cars, but it would be easier to maneuver and park and run on regular gas. At this point in my life, I feel that a little downsizing could be a wise way to go, but I’ve been spoiled by my LS and fear that moving to the ES would be a disappointment. (I’ve driven the ES and have found it entirely satisfactory in that short test drive.). Would you a) keep the 2008 LS460 and drive it as long as it’s reliable but without the nice new stuff, b) lease one of the big German cars, or c) buy a new ES350 Ultra Luxury? This is my second LS (previous one was a 1999 LS400) and I’m a true fan of the Lexus brand but I simply don’t want the new version. Advice and viewpoints would be greatly appreciated.

 

Welcome to CL as a new poster, LSowner.

I've reviewed and test-driven an LS460 of that vintage, but not having owned one, and not having tested any of the newer versions of the alternate vehicles you mention, I'm probably not in a position to give you much credible advice, although, like you, I am generally not impressed with the latest LS500.

My strong suggestion is, now that you are a CL member, if Steve (SW17LS) doesn't reply to this thread, you give him a PM (personal message) and ask his opinion. He has owned both an LS460 and a current Mercedes S550, and has test-driven some of the other vehicles you mention. He's probably more qualified to give you advice on this than anyone else.

Good Luck.

 

I started with a 2004 LS430 and moved to a 2010 LS460L Had to ton of issues and went back to the LS430. I currently have 2 LS430s that I love. Did not like what I saw when the LS500 was introduced, and test driving confirmed that opinion and more.

But, I have had the new ES350 as a service loaner. I was very impressed with it and found it to be truer to what I believe a Lexus luxury sedan should be. I would rather have it than the LS500. Sales of the LS500 have tanked. And while I hate it, I don't think it's suckage completely explains the drop. I think the ES being so good may have cannibalized some of the bottom-end LS sales.

All that being said, I would probably hold on to your 460 for a bit. There are rumors that a new ES is just around the corner, so I would wait and see what it offers. If you don't like it, you can always pick up the outgoing model, usually at a discount.

 

I agree about the electronic technology advances. My new RAV4 has so many conveniences. I really didn't know what I was missing. Mercedes has some of the best tech. I owned two CPO models and bought the Mercedes extended warranties. With Mercedes, I was able to go on their site and search for the perfect CPO all over. I was also able to add the extended warranty after I bought the car, shopping different dealers for best price (you have 30 days). The warranty is transferable and also refundable if you should sell the car before getting into the warranty. S class lose value quickly, so, CPO is a good buy. I worked for me.

 

If you go with either of the Audi A8, BMW 7 and Mercedes S, rather than lease, look for a good CPO deal. I'm not familar with their CPO programs but I know with Porsche the CPO warranty can extend past the original. We didn't buy it for my wife's car, but back in 2016 we could have purchased a less than1 year old Panamera and the CPO warranty covered it until 2022 when the original buyer's warranty was until 2020.

Unfortunately for me, my wife much preferred the model refresh and we ended up buying a new 2018.

 

I was going to say the same thing, makes it easy to own them without fear.

 

Like Mike mentioned I've had 4 LSs, an LS400, an LS430 and two LS460s, and I have had two ES sedans. I now have a 2020 Mercedes S560.

The ES is nothing like the LS. Ultimately you will miss the additional quality and engineering that goes into the LS over the ES. I just drove a new LS500 last week, and while I don't love many of the design choices Lexus made with that model, I would never choose an ES over one. The LS is just on another level entirely. Once you are used to a car of the LS's caliber its hard to go back to something cheaper and less sophisticated.

My S560 just rolled over 50,000 miles and it has been pretty much flawless. It does have a valve cover leak which its in for right now, which was covered under warranty. The S Class is more costly to maintain than the LS460, but its not crazily so. Find a good independent mechanic and that helps a lot. I would consider one, 18-20 has the new M176 engine which solves a lot of the previous M278 that was in the S550's issues. Although even later S550s (like 2016-2017) have cast iron cylinder walls and that solved the big issue with those engines which was bore scoring.

Knowing what I know now about the W222 generation S Class I would not hesitate to buy one of these and keep it for the long haul.

 

I test drove the new LS also. Did not like the car. Still driving the 2015 LS 460. I do not want the extra tech, nor the turbo 6 motor. Also, the new cabin is not nearly as comfortable.

If I was looking for a newer model, as in 2020 or newer, I would be looking at the GS

 

What year LS500 did you drive? I drove one back in 2018 when they first came out and really didn't like it, but I just recently drove a new 2024 and they have made a lot of improvements, ride is much better. The turbo 6 is very refined but isn't a V8 I agree. Its probably the most refined V6 I've driven. I think the seats in the 500 are incredible, and they have a great massage. My complaint outside of the cabin being much tighter is that it was surprisingly loud on the highway.

Thats the thing though, is an LS500 going to be more reliable long term than a W223 S Class? With that incredibly complex engine that already has trouble points I don't know that it will...

 

The one I drove was a 2024 full load including the executive package. Cabin is really tight room wise and the car is not Lexus quiet like my 2015. I also didn't like the way it handled, nor did I like the way the sport shift worked.

If I end up having to get another car down the road, it will be a normally aspirated or supercharged V8 or 6. Not some hugley complicated twin turbo rig.

 

Excellent point. Problematic models can become trouble free with some changes in new models.

 

Thank you so very much for your good advice. Much appreciated.

 

Thank you!!

 

Thank you so much. I test drove a 24 LS500, and then an ES350 ultra luxury back to back, and in some ways I actually preferred the ES. I also like the better gas mileage, regular gas requirement, and easier parking. When I got back in my 08 LS460 to drive home, I told my wife that I wouldn’t trade it even up for the new LS. I’m just so partial to Lexus reliability, and the reports are much better for reliability on the new ES vs the LS. Thanks again!