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If you can't stand on the throttle and constantly have to be careful with it what's the point? It should be built to withstand the output without issue or it will blow that one time you stay in it too long.
Standing on the throttle is one thing, agree without a doubt, it should be able to take that. But bouncing off the limiter like 40-50x a day or more, like so many think is cool for some odd reason, is quite another.
Stress in tension is highest at TDC/BDC and combined with High RPM oscillations, as in rev limiter bouncing, its a recipe for premature failure.
Case in point, within a few months of shaking down my Eaton supercharged GS, I took it out to Road Atlanta for a HPDE. This was back in September in so it was still plenty warm outside, high 80's and humid.
I didn't take it easy on the car, boost was consistently 6-9 psi for extended periods and I ran 5, 20+ minutes sessions, so nearly 2 hours of hot lapping. I was hitting ~135 on the back strait repeatedly with speeds never below 65 mph. Lots of drawn out WOT sections but I may have only hit the rev limiter just once, on missed shift.
My point is, if a car is tuned properly and driven responsibly, the engine can take much more than when its asked to perform silly shenanigans.
And for those concerned about added wear from going FI, check out these results from my recent UOA, which was the same oil from the Track Day.
Standing on the throttle is one thing, agree without a doubt, it should be able to take that. But bouncing off the limiter like 40-50x a day or more, like so many think is cool for some odd reason, is quite another. Stress in tension is highest at TDC and combined with High RPM oscillations, as in rev limiter bouncing, its a recipe for premature failure.
Case in point, within a few months of shaking down my Eaton supercharged GS, I took it out to Road Atlanta for a HPDE. This was back in September in so it was still plenty warm outside, high 80's and humid. I didn't take it easy on the car, boost was consistently 6-9 psi for extended periods and I ran 5, 20+ minutes sessions, so nearly 2 hours of hot lapping. I was hitting ~135 on the back strait repeatedly with speeds never below 65 mph. Lots of drawn out WOT areas but I may have only hit the rev limiter just once, on missed shift. My point is, if a car is tuned properly and driven responsibly, the engine can take much more than when its asked to perform silly shenanigans.
And for those concerned about added wear from going FI, check out these results from my recent UOA, which was the same oil from the Track Day.
Sure. And stock block LS engines can hold 850+ HP more often than not, it's the not part that is the risk I don't much like running unless the engine is very easy to swap. These cars are not exactly simple to do that in, and the 3uz just isn't the strongest bottom end. It's good your can take it but that's a sample of 1
Blackstone is a scam btw, they can't analyze in a meaningful way. They have no certifications at all and outsource for equipment analysis......
The fact you have tin/alum showing at all means bearing wear is happening
460s get about 325 to the wheels and have inherently far better transmissions and don't weigh much more, mine is 4215 vs 4040 for the 430 and both are base cars with no options. The 460 also has way better off the line traction and again, the trans allows the engine to stay right at peak output more so than a 430 but that is somewhat nullified here due to the increased average TQ of the super. You can further increase the advantage the 460 has by using a 2nd gen IS350 rear diff to increase ratio to 4.08 and use 285 section width tires and the car then gets under 5 sec 0-60 for less than $1500 total.
In any case the 460 also would benefit from a forced setup, probably going to cost me about $7000 or so but it also will get around 525 whp
Sucks that we haven't seen any LS460s doing sub 5 seconds 0-60s even with more mods than that. The 4.08 diff is serious OVERKILL, and ruins 1st gear, but would likely be great for the 430. Even the 3.7 is a bit too much for the 8 speed. I think the 3IS 3.13 LSD would be the best fit to retain decent driveability.
Sucks that we haven't seen any LS460s doing sub 5 seconds 0-60s even with more mods than that. The 4.08 diff is serious OVERKILL, and ruins 1st gear, but would likely be great for the 430. Even the 3.7 is a bit too much for the 8 speed. I think the 3IS 3.13 LSD would be the best fit to retain decent driveability.
Eh more wheel TQ and a faster time to the upper rev range is worth it, problem is the shifts are so slow that the extra shift takes away a lot unless you raise redline to 7300. Maybe I'll have the first car well into the 4 second range, I'm planing on sending mine off to RR as a test mule next month. Hopefully they figure it out well and don't kill my engine in testing lol!
I've actually ordered the IS LSD diff, 3.72, and 4.08 diffs already so I can match them to my overall setup freely. I found a salvage yard selling each one for $75 each plus $50 in shipping so it was a "why not" type of purchase.
In any case it will never be able to tie my Audi but it's fun to see how much speed one can get for under $20k
Eh more wheel TQ and a faster time to the upper rev range is worth it, problem is the shifts are so slow that the extra shift takes away a lot unless you raise redline to 7300. Maybe I'll have the first car well into the 4 second range, I'm planing on sending mine off to RR as a test mule next month. Hopefully they figure it out well and don't kill my engine in testing lol!
I've actually ordered the IS LSD diff, 3.72, and 4.08 diffs already so I can match them to my overall setup freely. I found a salvage yard selling each one for $75 each plus $50 in shipping so it was a "why not" type of purchase.
In any case it will never be able to tie my Audi but it's fun to see how much speed one can get for under $20k
Nice, hopefully they do a full tune, a good tune, given the dual intakes and exhaust are pretty good stock, thats one of the bigger things holding it back. Should respond better to e85 after that as well. I'm sure it'll be completely fine, despite what I think about them, RR does have a lot of experience in tuning.
What was the ratio on the IS LSD you found? I need to start looking for wrecked IS f sports.
Nice, hopefully they do a full tune, a good tune, given the dual intakes and exhaust are pretty good stock, thats one of the bigger things holding it back. Should respond better to e85 after that as well. I'm sure it'll be completely fine, despite what I think about them, RR does have a lot of experience in tuning.
What was the ratio on the IS LSD you found? I need to start looking for wrecked IS f sports.
3.08, it's literally the same but has torson. It's likely going to be the one used long term since more engine power will lower the need for gearing. I think the 3.72 will be good with my tire setup and stock power levels.....issue is I don't want to lower my top speed since 130 is already too low.
I don't plan on E85 unless I setup two tunes, general use and "kill" but I don't think the 1UR ring gap/rods are enough to really take advantage of it. We are thinking 5.5lb is the safe maximum unless I build the engine, and I'm not doing that right now.
The only way I would build is if I fall in love and the build would be in an AWD version since I would want at least 750hp and RWD isn't practical on the street at that level.
3.08, it's literally the same but has torson. It's likely going to be the one used long term since more engine power will lower the need for gearing. I think the 3.72 will be good with my tire setup and stock power levels.....issue is I don't want to lower my top speed since 130 is already too low.
I don't plan on E85 unless I setup two tunes, general use and "kill" but I don't think the 1UR ring gap/rods are enough to really take advantage of it. We are thinking 5.5lb is the safe maximum unless I build the engine, and I'm not doing that right now.
The only way I would build is if I fall in love and the build would be in an AWD version since I would want at least 750hp and RWD isn't practical on the street at that level.
If I would super the 430 I would likely do the elate kit since the Toms is crazy expensive for not much gain. For the 460 there aren't exactly too many (1 technically) options so that's why I'm leaning toward a route involving people used to the 2UR engine
Part of me is tempted to used the 5.7 TRD unit with a custom tune but there are some technical issues with that plan.
A few years ago I had two complete TOMs setups. They were decent for those looking for a modest but “reliable”, and I use that word loosely, bump in power. An Elate kit is overall a far superior being both modular and offering numerous replacement supercharger options, with a swap of the top plate, should something fail.
The TOMs choice of SC design was poor and the clutch actuated pulley unnecessarily complicated. Had they instead gone with a modern supercharger, utilizing a proper bypass-valve, granted an ECU/ load based controlled clutch pulley could have further reduced parasitic drag when boost wasn't requested. However the Ogura Clutch, Non-bypassed units, made the engine draw past the static lobes, which are fairly airtight, when the clutch is disengaged, that’s quite inefficient!
I will say the fully integrated Air-water IC in the compact intake manifold was a very good design, with separate heat exchangers and pumps to feed each bank. Bullet Cars AUS even used a TOMs casting as their blueprint to develop their latest low profile units.
Also look up “Kawasaki Jet Ski Supercharger failures” and you’ll see even more why those exact same Ogura units are failure prone. The pins that hold the lobes to the shaft have been known to migrate and permanently ruin both the lobes and the case or the lobes themselves have been known to deform, as in the last pic.
What is a good supercharger?
Who makes a supercharger kit for a 2001 LS430?
Please let me know. I want to start gapping these mopar folks.
Allow me to add my own experiences with fast cars:
This is a neverending, money-sucking game. If you think you finally have it where you think it will satisfy your desire, it will not take long and everything is deja vu. Then the next itch starts and the bank account takes another hit. It is a neverending spiral. Let;s face it: The LS is not a dragster.. If you really are into speed, get a Tesla S or similar and be done with. $120.000 should do it. Otherwise piddle away tons of money and still be second. Have been there - done that.
Now I go the other direction. I love my LS,. the slower I drive, the longer I can sit in it.
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So it all depends on where the return of the pcv vapors are positioned along the intake. Lucky for us Eaton guys there is a nice large port along the intake plenum and leading to the blower lobes. Being that it’s above the actual compressor portion and post TB it’s always under vacuum, and even as rpms rise. I do run a a Moroso full size oil catch can, it’s very effective at removing aerosolized droplets.
A few months back I did look heavily into that same dual flow pcv with individual (idle/cruise) circuits style valve. However it turned out to be unnecessary for me given the m112 oem plenum design. Also the 1uz design uses a fresh constant “metered” air draw and evacuates crankcase under all idle up to “nearly” wot scenarios helping keep acid levels in the oil low. Combined with modern lubricants detergent pkgs ability to soak up any residual the oe pcv system does a nice job.
The ME Wagner valve looks like a well engineered piece, especially for custom hot rods and where the IM is pressurized on occasion and still the desire to capture passive blowby. Although turbo / centri guys may still need a dedicated check valve in the system, despite that device actually having one already integrated.
I’m not sure what boost threshold is necessary to require a fully vented / passive setup or at least a check valve to keep engine seals happy under boost. I realize ring condition and boost level all play into this.
If your talking about the first thing that will lead to catastrophic failure in a stock engine, if it isn’t addressed, would be the piston rings, particularly the compression rings, when throwing a power adder of any kind onto it. This isn’t news or a unique problem to any particular engine. Because they are designed to expand at optimum temperature and close a built in gap, it always needs to be addressed when increasing cylinder pressure and temperature. If u push something past it’s optional design, and needs to be altered, doesn’t mean it’s a weak point. This is not unique to the 3UZ, but must be addressed anytime you want to increase output by more than 100hp or more. It has a very simple solution though. So don’t think this engine doesn’t have potential because someone has pushed their stock rings to far and destroyed the engine in the process.
The 3UZ is stronger in pretty much every aspect than a 2UZ, those rods may look similar but a forged rod like what’s used in the 3UZ is considerably stronger than the cast rods used in the 2UZ,, most of the 1/3UZ engines have 6 bolt mains along with an extra crank journal, with forged pistons and forged crankshaft. Compared with the cast components and 2 bolt mains used on the 2UZ, mean that any weaknesses found after supercharging a Tundra aren’t really relevant when discussing the potential output possible when supercharging a 3UZ
01-28-22, 12:04 PM
