jpv7774

Ya I was pretty sure that my wording would cause a slight up roar. So I do want to be clear......if I was having the same issues with my tires that some of u guys claim I would be a lot more boisterous then all of you. As a matter of fact I will never forget the one time in my life when I hydroplaned at approx 60mph and had to correct the steering wheel 3 times to re gain control of my car....that was scary...ironically my tires were Michelin Energy on an Acura 3.2TL...I will never forget it. And yes....I told several people my story...

Many years later here I am talking about tires for over 2 years on a Lexus forum.

You guys scared the crap out of me about my tires in the rain...man I was holding on with 2 hands 10 and 2 just knowing I would be against a guard rail any minute. But this never happened.....as a matter of fact nothing ever happened. As I reported my tires were awesome....couldnt even make them slip. All that being said.....I would feel awful if someone did buy a tire that I recommended and did have an issue.....or an accident.......so do your homework and make your own decisions.

I cant imagine how Bob04 cant even merge without the tail end spinning.....I just dont know what to say....there is some factor that is very different between my car and tires and Bobs. Bob I would take those tires off......seriously......something is wrong there.

The only other thing I can think of......is again my tires are the H rated and mine are 17's.....So mine are soft and have lots of sidewall. Now maybe an 18" wheel with a V rated tire ( tire rack review was V rated ) and 36lbs of pressure would slip like an ice rink..........not sure about that.......but mine wont budge. I was actually feeling bad for my car as I was purposely trying to get her to lose control....but she didnt. The entire drive home in the snow and rain my confidence was scrambled because of these threads......my car held like glue at 75mph for 3 hours on all different types of roads and conditions. i64....i95...i295....route 17.....route 29.....all like glue. Now I dont drive like an idiot......just cruisin and occasionally I enjoy the power of the LS........
Given the Tire Rack review and all of our conversations here I guess I will always be extra cautious......but if the roads are wet I am already cautious.

Lastly.......I read the entire Tire Rack review that WARMINWISC posted which I have read before. Given that review....holy cow I would go out and buy me some Pirelli P7's!!!! Then I would just drive a little more cautious in the rain. They mentioned several times how this tire was the testing groups favorite. I dont see that mentioned here or highlighted in anyway.......Although Bob did mention the tires are quite and refined .........Anyway.....it really comes to what your priorities are........Boca....u live in FLA.....it rains there everyday then its hot and sunny.....maybe if I lived in a rainy climate I would settle for the noisier tires. For me here in Virginia.....I will take whisper quiet....smooth as glass.....low rolling resistance.......those are my priorities. Again I found myself on a road trip with no radio on for half of the trip just listening to the purring Lexus engine at 75mp and almost zero road noise......it was an absolute pleasure!!!!!!

For those having issues.....remove the tires.......for those who are not....enjoy the ride.

Bocatrip

As the OP of this thread as well as living in Florida, with a ton of rain, I'm dying to chime in about my P7s performance in heavy rain.....however after over a month of ownership and almost 1,000 miles later, not one heavy downpour for me to comment on. Be assured I will be adding to this thread once the rain begins.

JffGRY706

I believe the confusion is because there are P7 and P7+ and 17" and 18" wheels so it is hard to know who has what. I have 17 inch wheels and P7+ and am very happy. as good as the Michelins Primacy MXV4' s. Discount Tire tried to tell me the P7+ were going to be discontinued like the Primacy's but as far as I know they are still readily available.

warminwisc

Any of yur wording in yur short posts an uproar, nahhhh! Why am I in caps everyone else not, funny just some tires this is all pretty funny.

Bob04

I've got the 17" H-rated P7 AS+ on one 430 and the 18" V-rated P7 AS+ on another.

I put a lot of miles on the 17"s this summer and fall. I noticed a dramatic decline in wet traction over that time. Will probably go back to a set of Premiers that I took off a 20k miles to compare to the P7 AS+. Probably should have waited before I bought the 18's for my other 430, but it is rarely driven and will never be driven in the rain, so I don't really care. Other than the wet traction as they age, they are still a very good tire, especially for the money.

As for Discount Tire telling you the P7 AS+ were going to be discontinued, they did that because they have their own version of the tire created exclusively for Discount Tire called the Strada that they are trying to push. They were a little shady with the wording, saying that they might be or are considering being discontinued. I just chalked it up to sales garage. Otherwise, I have been very happy with Discount Tire.

jpv7774

Hey WARM......no offense.....I thought that is how you are supposed to type a screen name......I wasnt shouting it. Yes I do like to ramble....hey if I am gunna take the time to log on i might as well try to make a point, or explain something. I see you saying just a tire etc......I dont see anyone getting upset on this thread like we did on my original thread.....this is just good discussion from several different angles. I think we are close to learning something about this tire.....

V rated....H rated......17's....18's....psi.......5spd tranny......6 speed tranny........maybe even a particular road surface causing an issue

jpv7774

So I was alerted of a response on another thread.....I got caught up on that thread and read something that might stir the pot yet again here on this thread. Since Tire Rack is often the source that we quote....here is a response from ( Tire Rack ) on the other thread.......this response might surprise you guys.......its neither here not there.....just conversation on a cold winter day. 03-04-15, 02:23 PM #5
Theo@TireRack.com
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Thanked 0 Times in 0 PostsThose are two very good tires, but I would recommend the Pirellis. The Michelins have been around for a long time, and they are beginning to show their age. Their newer competitors, like the Pirellis, have surpassed the bar set by the MXM4s. The Pirellis will be smoother, quieter, and better in snow.

Bocatrip

Hey JPV.... How are you? That post you were looking at was between me and another member comparing the Pirelli P7s and the Michelin Primacy MXM4. Let me tell you this my friend. I happened to drive a few weeks ago, a 2006 Lexus LS430 with 58,000 miles that had the MXV4 with 15,000 miles on them. I could not believe how different that car drove than mine!! At the time I had my 3 year old MXV4 primacys that were starting to get noisy and handled the bumps with some degree of harshness. The MXM4s drove as quiet as a church mouse, silky smooth across the roads, with spectacular steering repsonse as if I was not driving a luxo barge but rather a sport sedan. I was quite impressed. Yes the MXM4 is an older tire and so was the Primacy MXV4 that was the King of road and yet it too was discontinured. Why? Yes the MXM4 is more aggressive for handling and I'm going to assume will not take the irregularities as well as the P7s, But it is a quiet tire that handles like being on train tracks... Give and take with tires. Always the same. Every tire characteristic will not be perfect. I'm just not thrilled about driving the P7s which gives me too much of an "Isolated road feel". Yes comfortable and quiet. Just vague. Too be continued.

jpv7774

Hey Boca......yes i saw u on that thread....but that response i was alluding to was from the Tire Rack guy right?
im not sure that comparing an 01 LS with 130k vs an 06 LS with 60k is apples to apples. Was my memory correct on your car....01 w 130ish? I cant speak from personal knowledge of the difference between the two yet just of how.my 04.drives......but i do know they are different generations and that the 06 has a 6spd tranny and most likely a more.refined suspension.....just a guess. I would love to.drive an 01 to see how they drive....maybe that model year needs a more aggressive tire. Would i consider my cars handling vague or crisp???????? I would error towars soft marshmallow cruisin machine.....more.towards vague then crisp. If i wanted a firmer ride i would switch to 18's and v rated tires.....certainly that would crisp it up a notch......but that aint happenin to my car.....i like the ole marshmallow.

Wizard650

Just put some 245/45R18 V P7's on mine. So far I'm impressed. Will update as I put more miles on them.

Bocatrip

UPDATE: Caution! This is a long thread. I am the OP of this thread giving my latest update. I did not want to start another tire thread so decided to continue this one. Firstly let me say that after driving the Pirelli P7 A/S plus for approximately 1000+ miles, I found it to be by far the quietest and most comfortable Touring Tire I have ever owned. However........ almost immediately upon driving on the Pirellis I was aware of a noticeable disconnect with road feel which I had not experienced with my previous Michelin Primacy MXV4s specifically on highways. The symptoms were 1) constantly having to adjust my steering wheel while driving at highway speeds to keep the car centered. 2) I was never able to find the steering wheel centered as i was continually adjusting it to keep the car "grounded and steering straight". The best I can describe it is as... a feeling of not tracking dirrectly and a lack of road feel. I'm sure that has somelthing to do with the P7's superior quiet and soft ride. For me... and let me make this clear... I need a feel of the road regardless of driving a Luxo Barge like the LS430 or any other car. These tires made me feel too isolated. I have since returned the tires to the vendor. I was not going to replace with the Michelin Premiers for a number of reasons discussed earlier, and the MXV4 is no longer available for the LS430. I finally decided on the Michelin Primacy MXM4, an older tire but rated very highly in its day that works well for me now. Many LS460s use this tire. I feel it is very well planted on the road with great steering predictability. Yes, it is not as quiet as the P7s and yes it does not absorb the road irregularities as well as the P7s, but it does track well and that what was missing and important to me. As Tire rack says in all the reviews, their criticism of tires are very subjective and every driver needs, feels, and has their own priorities. No tire is perfect is every respect and there is a give and take when choosing. In summary..the Pirelli P7 Cinturato A/S is a super quiet and comfortable tire and for most as the rankings show is quite popular. I just needed more road feel and went with it. I might very well be the exception for a Touring tire. So far so good and of course as a Club Lexus enthusiast I will keep chiming in with any new info. I apologize for the long rambling post... but that's me.

Stu

I have had far too many sets of tires on my LS because if this EXACT problem !!! I even got rid of my OEM 18s because I thought 17s would be better ... and they were a bit better. its true different tires helped reduce this issue slightly and some tires made it worse. Honestly it's by far my biggest issue with my LS. No one seems to be able to fix this, although many "good" shops have tried over the years. I have been forced to live with it.

Bocatrip

Thanks Stu for relating... However my previous Michelin Primacy MXV4s which are now discontinued were magic for my LS430. So many owners miss this tire.. Oh well.

jpv7774

Nice follow up Boca. That was a very precise shopping experience as well as user experience. The forum should understand that you are a true car enthusiast and are extremely tuned into your cars. I would agree that my car doesnt steer itself....I have to steer it. My wifes Audi Q5 has a stiffer steering feel at high speeds....like the old school power assist but not power steering.....I think the stiffer steering of the newer cars helps them track easier. When I drive my car I just veg out........so the quiet marshmallow is fine with me. It does however make me occasionally crave a Porsche 911.......but I cant afford one...and cant afford to keep one on the road.....so all marshmallows for me.

FatherTo1

We have the P7+ in 18s on the LS 430 and P7+ in 19s on the LS 460. I love how quiet and smooth the P7+ is and, after reading Bocatrip's post, I do sort of notice having to make regular minor corrections on the freeway. It isn't so frequent to become a distraction but, now that someone else has mentioned it, I do notice more drifting side to side, and yes, a disconnected feel. It doesn't bother me but I do know what Boca and Stu are referring to. I thought maybe I need an alignment but everything checked out fine when I bought the car and the tires were just rotated and road-forced balanced recently. A part of me is still curious about the Michelin Premier AS, despite my reservations about its low starting tread-depth. Michelin doesn't even make the Premier in 19s, but I just noticed it is now available for the LS 430 at 245/45/18! Previously, only the 235/50 Premier LTX would fit the LS 430 in 18s.

If the P7+ gets discontinued then I might try the Goodyear RS-A2. They're OEM tires for the Tesla Model S. The LS 460 we purchased used came with RS-A2 and I was quite impressed by the tire's quietness and road manners, especially since they literally cost half as much as a Michelin or P7+. The Goodyears may not last as long but half the treadlife for half the cost may still be better because overall it may cost the same as a Premier or P7+ tire in the long run, you will have fresher performance of two sets of tires compared the duration of one set of P7+ or Michelins.

We finally got a good soaking rain in Sacramento, CA the past two days. Enough rain to cause several mudslides and unfortunate deaths. During the inclement weather the P7+ performed perfectly fine. I felt completely confident in the rain on the P7+ and truly wonder what is so lacking about its wet weather traction rating? Maybe my tires are still too new at about 10K miles with great tread depth because I didn't experience any slipperiness nor drama in the wet. Aside from relating to Bocatrip and Stu about other qualities of the P7+, I actually noted to myself how quiet and smooth the P7+ has been in the rain, even quieter and smoother than on dry roads...at least that is how it felt. The rain probably does drown out some of the road noise but it did stand out in my mind how serene it was driving in the wet.