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I replaced the upper and lower pans two weeks ago and am finally getting around to sharing. I was able to disconnect the subframe and remove it instead of removing the entire drivetrain from the car as listed in the factory service manual. Once the subframe was out and the steering rack was swiveled out of the way, the entire upper and lower oil pan assembly's were exposed with plenty of room around them to work. I was able to do this job in two afternoons - a huge time saving v. pulling the drivetrain.
Here are the steps involved, with the car in the air and the engine supported from above. I am not responsible for any damage you do to your vehicle, all liability is your own. If you don't feel comfortable doing this, take your car to a certified Lexus tech. If you're on the fence, remember that the greener you are, the more mistakes you'll make. ... but everyone has to start somewhere...
Make sure that you properly suspend the engine with equipment certified to hold at least 1 ton. The engine hoist points are on the left and right side of the intake under the plastic V-cover. Also make sure the vehicle is supported correctly using the factory recommended jack points and adequate support. A lift would be ideal, but four large jack-stands can be used. This goes without saying, but: you don't want the engine falling on you, you don't want the car falling on you, and you don't want to pull anything down that isn't rated for the weight. I am using a two ton chain hoist connected to a 4x6" spanning two load bearing walls.
Materials: -FIPG Liquid Gasket #103 - The tube Lexus parts department sold me had a key for rolling the tube. Worth every penny.
- Quart of Dexron III-VI for power steering
- Five quarts of high quality synthetic oil
- O-ring for oil dipstick
1. Remove both plastic engine splash plates.
2. Remove the steering tie rod ends from each knuckle (A); pull the cotter pins, remove the castle nuts, and hit the knuckles with little Suzy the sledgehammer until the rod ends come out of the knuckles. Use a pickle fork it this doesn't work, but be prepared to replace the tie rod boots.
3. Disconnect the lower control arms from the engine subframe (B); one camber bolt at the front of each lower arm and two bolts holding the back of each lower control arm at the bushing. Once unbolted, pry each lower control arm out of their mounts on the subframe.
4. Remove the large solid block under the steering rack that's bolted to the engine subframe (C). Disconnect the pressure and return lines at the steering rack (remember which line goes where), and take the two nuts off that hold the steering rack to the engine subframe (D). Disconnect the steering rack high pressure sensor pigtail.
5. Remove the four engine subframe bolts and manuever the subframe out from between the lower control arms, slide the power steering rack off of the mounting studs, and move the subframe out from under the car out of the way.
6. Unbolt the bracket holding the power steering lines to the bottom of the pan (E), and move the lines out of the way to expose the pan.
7. With the steering rack still attached to the steering shaft, pivot it out of the way.
8. Drain engine oil and disconnect the engine oil level pigtail.
9. Remove the lower pan.
10. Remove the intermediate baffle.
11. Remove the upper pan.
12. Clean all mating surfaces religiously with a red scotch bright pad and non-chlorinated brake cleaner.
13. Replace the oil dipstick o-ring.
Now, it's time to install the new stuff, which is the reverse procedure of disassembly. Toyota decided to use form in place gasket (FIPG) rather than manufactured gaskets. You'll want to purchase the new "black" FIPG - the old stuff was grey but has been superseded. I would never in my life use RTV or the like to seal an oil pan, but FIPG is damned good stuff and I trust it. But it adds some complexity to the job.
Once a bead is laid on the mating surface, there's about a five minute window to get the pan in place, fastened, and torqued.
I spent a few minutes practicing how I would maneuver the pan into place. The oil dipstick tube has to plug into the upper pan before the fasteners can be installed. It's also important to have all of the bolts (labeled A, B, C, and D, in the diagram below) prepared and in sequence on the ground, and preferably someone who can hand them to you in order so it all goes back together in less than five minutes. Having an air ratchet also helped. Have the torque wrenches set in foot lbs and inch lbs and lying nearby for fast torquing. Make sure there is ZERO oil anywhere on either mating surface and that all old grey FIPG is completely gone. Use as much non-chlorinated brake cleaner as needed to clean the inside of the engine block so that a bead of oil doesn't drip down onto the mating surface before you can get the pan fastened. Operating table clean....
Start at step 3. End at step 6.
I put the suspension and steering back together and let the gasket cure overnight before adding more oil. I read FIPG cures in a few hours but I wanted to be sure. Fill the power steering reservoir with Dexron III-VI, turn the steering wheel lock to lock, add more fluid, turn lock to lock, etc, until the system bleeds itself.
Original Message
Hi guys. I'm looking for anyone here who knows anything about replacing the entire oil pan assembly with the engine in the car.
The 430 jumped a median the other night and came down hard on the undercarriage - it was raining at night time and the driver couldn't see it because of the reflection on the road. There is a compression fracture in the aluminum upper pan as well as scuffs along the iron lower. I want to replace the pan entirely because its aluminum and I'm sure there are many other cracks waiting to expose themselves under the right conditions. The car has been on a rack, subframe removed, and inspected by "professionals" who want over $1500 for an 11 hour pan replacement and recommended I tig weld the pan without removing it. Lexus will not allow me to supply a used pan and wants over $500 for parts alone. None of these options are acceptable to me, so I plan to tackle the job in two weeks.
I have ALLDATA repair but was unhappy to find the Lexus files less than complete - there is no oil pan replacement data. ALLDATA gives hour estimates on jobs also, so I was hoping to find out how long the pan should take to replace. The OEM repair manual set costs $500 on ebay.
I do have all of the torque specs, and see that the subframe is easy enough to remove with the car in the air. I know the oil pan is integral to the engine unlike older stamped pans, and am a little worried something is going to be in the way that is going to make replacing the upper pan a PITA. So I guess I have the following questions.
1. Anyone know how long a job it is?
2. Once the subframe is out, does the pan simply unbolt and remove, or is there more than the starter that has to be disconnected in order to provide adequate space for removal (ex. exhaust, bracing, etc).
3. Anyone know of a guide or scan PDF of the repair manual that could be shared to make the job easier?
Thanks!
If I tackle this I'll throw up a tutorial since there isn't one.
Last edited by Emc209i; 03-24-16 at 08:17 PM.
Reason: Added guide
Those pictures do help some, thank you. The post appears to be removal of the lower pan, which I need to change also, but I'm mostly worried about the upper pan (you can see it in place in the pictures in that thread).
The first step in replacing the upper or lower pan in the factory service manual is to remove the engine from the car. And the engine and trans come out together through the top. You may have to get creative.
If you end up removing the engine you might as well replace the timing belt, water pump, etc. while you are at it. I would replace any seals or bushings that are accessible while the engine is out.
The first step in replacing the upper or lower pan in the factory service manual is to remove the engine from the car. And the engine and trans come out together through the top. You may have to get creative.
Thank you for looking and sharing that. I checked ALLDATA again and I see that the engine removal process is listed, and its extensive. We know people are able to get the lower pan out of the car without removing the entire drivetrain. I certainly hope the subframe comes out and the pan is right there without anything in the way, that would be a lot less work than taking everything apart.
Originally Posted by tradosauru
If you end up removing the engine you might as well replace the timing belt, water pump, etc. while you are at it. I would replace any seals or bushings that are accessible while the engine is out.
I overhauled both the timing belt and coolant system 50,000 miles ago. Still 40,000 miles left. The only thing I'm on the fence about are the motor and transmission mounts.
The more I think about it, the more I think I might just remove the engine properly and save myself any headache of a misadventure. Relatively speaking, the engine isn't that difficult to get out of this car. Thanks guys, I'm glad I started this thread, it's helped me with the cognition and compartmentalizing I needed to do.
Good luck with your repair, this might help:
>Attachment with highlights
Your posts are always so helpful and full of good attachments! I was sad to see the mods (or you?) deleted such a helpful post, I'm sure others down the road could have used it.
I called a Lexus LS tech at the dealership today.
- He has personally removed the upper oil pan by dropping the sub-frame and hoisting the engine a few inches from above!!!
So with that very helpful tidbit, I will just drop the subframe and re-align the car after. This will save replacing almost new fluids, gaskets, possibility of wire harness damage, and removing the driveshaft and shifter linkage. I've got a new upper and lower pan on order from a salvage yard in Florida - scored at $180 shipped for both. Hopefully everything goes as planned.
Originally Posted by LS430inDE.
My gf always complains of my 'compartmentalizing' so I'm good in that aspect!
That's all it takes. Book smart people usually suck at mechanical work, which is almost entirely experience based. I sucked at working on cars when I started fourteen years ago. You get better and better until one day people think you were born with the gift. Experience is everything.
The aluminum pan had a crack in it. Oil was leaking out. Read the quoted part of the first post. Unless the pan or gasket fails, no one should have to do all of that work.
Edit: It's worth mentioning that the upper pan had three cracks I could find in it. Welding the crack that could be seen as suggested by the mechanic would not have fixed the leak. Doing the job the "right way" is always the way to go.
02-28-16, 11:39 AM
2004 LS430 Upper Oil Pan Replacement
