c50sooner

Hello all, first time post but have learned a ton from this forum, thanks for everything so far.

I'm stuck and hoping to win your sympathy by first telling you that I've just completed replacement of my starter (1998 LS400, about 100K miles) and still have the exact same problem as before. I apologize in advance for the length.

Car was running great, no issues whatsoever. Started intermittently getting the Tail Lamp Failure indication on the gauge cluster, didn't think anything of it as it would come and go with no apparent implications. About a month later, come out to my car in the parking lot at work to go home and the car just barely starts. Go straight to Sam's and have the battery checked, it's bad, replaced it. Get new battery and car runs fine for a few days. Go to the garage one morning and car will not start. At this point, the engine doesn't sound like it's turning over. Found the battery cables loose from the Sam's install. Disconnected battery and charged it, tried again and same result. The sound I got when I turn the key was more of a "groan" that went slightly up and down, and as best I could guess was maybe the starter spinning disengaged from flywheel. Not the typical dry cranking sound when engine won't catch. Took battery back to Sam's hoping it was just a bad battery, which it in fact was (even though it was a week old).

Put second new battery in making sure battery connections were ultra clean and tight. Attempted to start, and got same exact groan when turning the key. Took that battery back to Sam's and had it checked, tested good.

At that point, read all the threads I could and given the strong battery and age and model of my LS it seemed like it could be bad starter. So I decided to embark on that joyous task. Finally got everything back together, new starter in and charged up new battery. Cranked it once, same overall result except what was a groan before is now a constant higher pitch better sounding whine, like the starter is spinning faster and more consistently. But nonetheless, does not sound like it's turning the engine over and the car makes no effort to start whatsoever. Cranked a third time, and all the sudden does nothing at all. Came back out about 15 minutes to crank again, and it was back to the high pitched whine/spin with no engine crank indication.

Other noted information, when I get in the car and turn the key to on without cranking the ignition, all lights, radio, headlights, etc come up great. No evidence of degraded battery at all. There is however some kind of barely audible, multi-toned actuation sound for about 20 seconds. Kind of like a motor that is barely able to actuate something. A sound that I imagine the auto power steering wheel would make if it were moving into a few different directions at about 1/20th of the normal speed, and seems to originate somewhere in/around the center dash/radio area

Basically all I know is what I've read in posts, which was enough to get me through the starter replacement, but now I don't know where to go from here. Trying to avoid the shop. Any ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated, if you're still reading, thanks!!!

LScowboyLS

take some starting fluid, put a 1 full second spray into the intake (the opening near the battery) see if you get car started, how does it run now?

once it is running, put a voltmeter across the battery while it is at idle and see if you have 13.3V or more, if not, you have have a bad connection, a bad ground, a bad relay, fuse, fuselink, or alternator.

when I had starting issues, one time it was the alternator (not the alternators fault, it was killed by leaking PS fluid), and the other time I had starting issues, it was bad ECU caps

also, if your battery is sufficiently charged, it should read at least 12.5V with car off

c50sooner

LSCowboy, to answer your question it doesn't run now. In fact, it doesn't sound/feel like the starter is even spinning the flywheel, which would mean that starting fluid wouldn't help me right? Although I suppose it's possible it could be turning over in a really strange sounding weak manner. Is there an easy way to tell the engine is turning over when cranking the ignition (other than the usual typical sound of the engine cranking, which I don't have?)....thanks.....

LScowboyLS

if you don't have any cranking sound at all, then it is not ECU caps, it is going to be something in the starting circuit, which is a pretty simple circuit and easy to track down, could be something as silly as the neutral safety switch

do you have the real Lexus factory service manual?

and did you check the battery voltage with car off and also with ignition switch on? (with terminals connected)

have you tested or substituted the starter relay with a known good one (might be another identical non-critical relay nearby you can swap)

an issue with the theft deterrent system could also cause a no-start, if memory serves

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

if you're having repeated problems with the starter/charging circuits i don't know why you jumped to replacing the starter without testing it first.

Sounds almost like a mechanical problem, but i've never seen anyone sheer a tooth off a 1uz flywheel, though i'm sure it's possible. If that were the case, and the starter wasn't engaging the flywheel (due to a few broken teeth/stripped teeth) then all you would hear is the starter motor turning over at high speed without the motor turning over at all.

However as that's pretty rare and (one would hope) you'd have noticed the broken teeth when installing the starter, I think you should start by double and triple checking all your ground points (on the motor and the chassis), and making sure EVERYTHING is plugged in properly on/around the intake that you just removed. Using a multimeter to make sure you're getting 12-14v hot from the battery is probably not a bad idea either, as well as checking static load.

midwest2

Get someone to turn the key for you while you are looking under the hood at the drive belt so you can see if it's at least turning over. Seems odd that you are skilled enough to change out the starter on a uz motor but you aren't sure if the motor is actually turning over when you hit the key?

After all the work to change the starter, I'd hope you went with a starter from the dealer? Or had yours rebuilt by a specialty shop?

c50sooner

Ahh the belt, good tip, thanks midwest. If the belt's moving, does that rule out a starter/flywheel engagement issue?

Looked at the flywheel teeth while standing on my head putting the new starter in. Saw no obvious indication of any damage, certainly no missing teeth.

I knew no way of checking the starter, and had read a post talking about a groaning starter being a prelude to starter failure, so decided to just change it. I too suspect some kind of grounding issue, but haven't found info on that, and as you can probably tell, I'm somewhat clueless with electrical issues.

I have what I believe to be a real factory service manual, it looks like it anyway, but it's the downloadable one mentioned on these boards.

LScowboy, do have a cranking sound, but from in the car with door open, just sounds like zipping whine, doesn't sound like cranking over the engine. Have verified I have 12.6 volts across the battery when installed with key off. What should it read with key set to "on"? What about when cranking?

Haven't checked any other voltages or resistances on anything else as I don't know what I'm doing with that, and not familiar with the term static load.

Thanks for all the replies....

c50sooner

Hopefully these 3 videos from just now shed some additional light on the situation:

First one is the car cranking (fortunately the belt is in fact turning):

http://youtu.be/le8By2q5P0w

Does that seem like a full strength crank? Battery is new and freshly charged.

Second is the gauge cluster, looks/sounds normal to me, no longer hear the previous slow motor actuation sound:

http://youtu.be/EBKFJfkai_4

Third is the high pitched hum/buzz from somewhere under the hood with ignition key turned to "On" position. Is this sound normal?

http://youtu.be/LHStTndA_PQ

billydpowe

iTrader: (1)

WHERE did you get the starter?? did you put it in or have it done??
mine looked like this.....

c50sooner

Fun job isn't it! I put it in, just found a new one online on Amazon. Did you rebuild yours in place?

LScowboyLS

your cranking over does sound a bit anemic - but the starter is turning the engine adequately enough that the car should start, so I would look at standard stuff on a car that won't start, i.e. ignition, valve timing, adequate compression and fuel delivery.

has the car been scanned for ECU codes? - do you have correct fuel pressure on the rail? - it there a strong spark at the plugs? are they wet with gas? - we had a fellow in here the other night that had lost his valve synchronization (timing belt), lord knows how, but it is not the first thing I would have suspected! - he is very lucky it was not a 95 or newer (interference engine)

if you do have the real Lexus factory service manual, there is a troubleshooting table for a no-start condition, that is where I would begin!

LScowboyLS

Not to sound crazy or anything, but your serpentine belt routing doesn't look right, can you check the diagram on the car?

billydpowe

iTrader: (1)

Fun job isn't it! I put it in, just found a new one online on Amazon. Did you rebuild yours in place?

I just replaced plunger and contacts, we have done three of these using just the kit. I dont think the actual starter will ware out until maaaany miles..

c50sooner

Thanks guys, you've given me some hope that maybe it's not as far from running as I'd thought. Let me ask this, I had kind of blamed the loose battery cables from the Sam's battery install on frying some element(s) of my electrical system due to voltage spikes induced by the intermittent cable connections.

I originally thought it had killed my starter, but with a strong new battery, could that anemic cranking be related to the voltage regulator or some other facet of the alternator being fried? Aside from checking the running voltage, is there an easy way to tell if the alternator and voltage regulator are functioning properly?

I certainly haven't done anything to the belt configuration, but I'll double check against the manual just to make sure it's right.

Thanks.......

LScowboyLS

I never heard back about the serpentine belt routing