FoxCruiser

Kind of a long-term lurker, but very infrequent poster. I've got a lot of ground to cover so settle in for a long post.

My car history has been predominantly Toyota and Acura, with my family mainly owning Toyota/Lexus. While I left to explore some German and domestic cars for a while(mainly BMWs and Pontiacs with one vintage Audi in the mix), a purchase of a rare 1988 Celica Alltrac(or GT-Four as it's known overseas; a AWD turbo variant meant for WRC competition) steered me back towards the brand. I purchased a '95 LS400 which I had for a brief time; I didn't quite like the lack of responsiveness of the A340E and the overall throttle response/performance aspect of the pre-facelift UCF20 wasn't really my speed. I liked the comfort and features, but I was just overall underwhelmed with the car. I ended up getting my hands on a 2005 Corolla XRS for another brief period of time; while I loved the drivetrain and fuel economy an old knee injury and lack of seat adjustment made it a chore to deal with if I was driving over an hour at a time.

I made a long road trip with my mother in 2017, in which I drove her '16 RC300 for a grand total of 28 hours over a four day extended weekend. I enjoyed the overall responsiveness and comfort of the car, and I was able to easily find a seating position that suited me. While I'm far more of a manual transmission fan, the trip and parking next to a facelift UCF20 caused me to give the platform another look. Facelift cars are fairly hard to come by in my area, but I did find a decent example in Antique Bronze Mica in a nearby town; despite a general lack of service history I ended up parting with the Corolla and pulling the trigger last October.

One year on my experience has been for the most part positive, with a few gripes that may or may not be dealbreakers. Firstly, I feel the A560E to be a vast improvement over the A340E; the improved power/torque of the VVTi 1UZ adds to that. The only other automatic I've owned that I wasn't underwhelmed with the response of was a 1999 BMW 740iL; the UCF20 matches it. This is the longest I've owned any automatic. Reliability-wise the LS400 has been great; I only had one stalling issue that was quickly ferreted out and resolved by replacing the VVTi actuators. I did a significant amount of maintenance right off including all fluids(complete transmission drain/refill with T-IV included), new brakes, filters, plugs, and the whole nine yards. The timing belt service was completed back in May, with 197K on the clock. Friends that have ridden in/driven the LS400 generally like it; I go out with family to live concerts and they generally ask if we can take the LS instead of their newer vehicles. I've also found the LS400 fairly simple to DIY on, though I'm used to wrenching on my GT-Four as well as a MK3 Supra I purchased as a project earlier this year. As a computer technician who generally dislikes SUVs, the LS also has significant cargo capacity for a four-door sedan; I've carted around six full-sized desktops in the trunk alone with room for several more in the back seats. I recently started a new job which requires a bit of a commute; I'm putting on about 50-60mi per day mostly highway. For dealing with a mixture of high-speed freeway blasts and sitting in heavy traffic there isn't much better for comfort and quiet than this car.

The gripes, however, are definitely present. The LS is definitely in need of struts; the rest of the suspension seems okay at this point but I can tell refresh time will be coming up in a few years. While highway manners are definitely great I do yearn for a bit more road feel and planted behavior. Unfortunately the suspension upgrades I've seen for these cars tend to focus on extreme lowering and the VIP look; as a daily driver that's not what I really want. Are there any recommended strut/spring kits that might fit the bill if I wanted a minimal amount of lowering/firmer suspension(1" or less), or am I better off just sticking with stock replacements and living with it? Also, despite the maintenance I've noticed my fuel mileage has taken a significant hit. I used to get around 28-30mpg highway with conservative driving habits; I'm now lucky to get 23-24mpg with my work commute(90% highway). I replaced the coolant temp sensor along with the VVTi actuators earlier this year(I also run a Scangauge and the coolant temp from the OBD2 readings seems pretty accurate). I might have a broken hose fitting at the resonator(I have a spare unit that I'll be putting in shortly), but I don't think that's going to be the magic pill to cure my ills. Is there anything else I should look at? A friend of mine with a UCF30 mentioned O2 sensors, but I'm not popping any codes in relation to them.

Especially with my new commute(and possibly getting another gig in the future with a 150mi round-trip commute), there's a part of me that wants to go for a more economical car, but I also know that if I can regain my previous fuel economy there isn't an incredibly large improvement between the LS400 and anything I'd care to drive. There's also winter driving in a high-altitude area of Colorado that gets hit pretty hard with snow, but VSC and new snow tires were more than capable of dealing with last winter(I'm also used to driving powerful RWD cars with no traction/stability control in winter, so that helps). I also much prefer older cars to newer and would go back to a manual transmission if I made the switch. The shortlist for a replacement would be a 7th-generation Celica GT-S; those share the same drivetrain as my previous Corolla XRS which was capable of upper-30s highway. Another(albeit more expensive) option would be the 10th-generation Corolla, though those are harder to find in manual and the interior materials/comfort would pale in comparison to the LS. A good friend has urged me to consider a first-generation RAV4, though I'm not much of a fan of SUVs and the fuel mileage would only be on par with the LS. The reliability of any of those options with higher mileage would also be a consideration; a 200K 2ZZ is considered to be pretty up there while a 200K 1UZ is generally considered to be quite good to go if cared for properly. I did have the chance to check out Matt Farah's UCF20 a few months ago(pictured next to my Celica) and even start it; for 975K it felt more worn than my car but still seemed quite solid.

Unfortunately, I'm still finding myself on the fence and would like some advice and opinions. This is definitely a textwall, but any help would be appreciated!

clipster

Not sure if this helps, but this is my story:

I own a 98 LS400 that I purchased in 2004 with 70K, that today has 215K

In 2010 with 160K I realized that I needed a whole new front end. Parts at the time cost $2K with me doing the work. Having the work done would cost double that. The question I needed to answer was 'do I want to put this much money into a 12 year old car with 160K?'

After a lot of searching, I realized that there was nothing else out there that I got excited about as much as the car I already own, and it was at that moment that I realized that I had become a 'classic car owner' - meaning I would keep my fleet of cars 'forever', and simply spend whatever was required to keep them running for as long as possible.

The LS can handle almost anything, so the question you have to answer is "Does your LS inspire you?" If so, keep it. If not, find something that does, and get that.

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Tough spot. With the basic maintenance done these are very durable-reliable. Suspension bits become expensive to replace and especially needed at the upper miles with the aged cracked rubber parts. I put a fair amount into ours at the 200K interval. To me it is worth it because I like the older cars. Anything new is pushing more $ than I would care to spend. Depends what priority comfort to miles and the balance between the LS will achieve for your uses. These older LS including the 430's have proven themselves.

For shocks I would suggest the Bilstein HD's using the stock springs. Those shocks have two snap ring settling for the spring perch. Using the lower snap ring setting will drop the car about 1/2". That slightly reduced center of gravity may be a slight improvement. On stock wheels the ride is quite nice and comfortable. No doubt it will be a bit firmer though depends on your sensitivity to the ride characteristics.

A compression check and oil analysis will be good info to have on the current state of the car if there are issues leading up to problems. Same can be done for the tranny fluid to determine if there are significant material showing up in the fluid.

McPierson

iTrader: (3)

Peacebay

Stroock639

yea like others said it really depends on how much you like the final revision of the LS 400. i know i haven't seen anything else i'd consider a good direct replacement for the LS, not even the E55 and all its craziness. to me the LS is the about the perfect balance of ultimate luxury while still being easy to service and not costing too much in maintenance / repairs. it's also not that big, has genuinely great performance even 20 years later, and has great visibility outward, which i can't say as much about the 460s i've driven.

your particular car seems like it has some irritating issues to track down though, but it looks great and i love the LS 430 wheels it has. i guess it's no surprise that someone on an LS 400 forum would say the LS 400 is the best, but apart from just loving the lower, sleek styling of the 400 vs the 430, they're both great cars. the 1st gen 430 i think is ugly honestly but the 04-06 i think got that timeless LS appearance back and looks good.

McPierson

iTrader: (3)

Peacebay

FoxCruiser

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I've been away for a bit, but I've got enough time to properly respond now. So, to the nested quotes!

This definitely helps. I still need to find suitable front end components(I'm figuring the dealer is the best place to get the front end from), but I'm figuring everything but the shocks should be okay for a few years. What I do like from the LS400 is the full experience. The smooth ride(even if I find it a little too much on the floaty side), the presence, the fairly rare color(Antique Bronze Mica), and the fact it eats the miles like nobody's business. I don't think I have the attachment to the LS as I do my MK3 Supra and ST165 Celica, but it's very hard to find fault with it as a daily. Plus in a sea of 2010+ cars it's a '90s legend that still holds its own without flinching. I do find myself leaning towards keeping this one, though I still need to figure out the economy issue.

Also good to know. I haven't done a Blackstone analysis on the LS just yet, but for 201K the oil keeps pretty clean and the trans fluid has kept very well over the year I've been running since the drain/refill(I took care of that as soon as I bought the car). I'll definitely look into the Bilsteins; I had them on a 540i that was unfortunately totaled several years ago and I was pleased. They don't seem to be much more expensive than the KYBs. The overall 'livability' of whatever I'm using as a daily is a major consideration, and the LS's comfort level is definitely a plus(especially now that I'm out and on the road most of the day). There aren't many newer cars that I'm a fan of, though I'll eventually inherit my mom's RC at some point. I still prefer the '80s and '90s design language Toyota had, not to mention the visibility.

That said, is your handle a reference to the second-gen Celica?

I agree with you that the newer models seem a bit more proprietary than I'd like to deal with. As with my response to RA40 above, the design language and especially the visibility and 'fun to drive' factor seems to have drastically changed. While the systems like blind spot monitoring, rear-facing cameras and cross-traffic warning when backing up is definitely an improvement, the lack of rearward visibility on newer cars is making that tech more of a necessity than an enhancement. I prefer to know what's going on with my own eyes; while I work in IT I know that systems aren't infallible. Unfortunately it looks like the H&R springs were recently discontinued and I've had a hard time locating a set. I'd definitely consider pairing them with the Bilstein HDs if I could find a set. I did a spring/strut swap on my old Corolla XRS so I'm not adverse top that DIY.

Admittedly I haven't driven a 430 yet, but I'm curious of the differences. Prices for a good facelift 430 are a bit above what I want to pay(at least right now), but there's no denying that they're a ton of car for the money. I still prefer the looks of the facelift UCF20, but the facelift UCF30 isn't a bad looking car. It might be an option a few years down the line, though. The improved cornering ability is something I'd be interested in.

You've made some good points. I do like the facelift UCF20 for the most part, and at this point it's the longest I've owned an automatic without becoming flat out frustrated with the transmission; that's high praise coming from someone who has lived and breathed manuals for many years. The visibility is a key point with me; you just can't find newer cars that you can see that well out of. These were big cars for the mid to late '90s, but now the LS is more of a midsize in comparison. I figure the main gotchas on the maintenance are the ones I'm coming up against. I've already done the T-belt job, but the front end components are coming due and I'm figuring that O2 sensors and a possible recap are in the future for this car. Spendy, but I am trying to weigh it against going for another used car that will also require maintenance. I'd like to defer some of this far enough out to get my Supra back on the road, but time might tell. I'm still leaning towards keeping this beast as it's been treating me well over the past month of commutes and offsite work at my job(I'm responsible for several remote locations and am constantly driving between them). So... to create a game plan?

Stroock639

it's among the only auto transmission i've driven where i'm not that annoyed by the lack of any sort of tiptronic type gear selection input. normally brochures are just a bunch of marketing exaggeration, but when toyota said the transmission "brings instant gratification as your slightest wish is immediately answered with a combination of sheer power, precise control, and smooth sophistication," and that "in a single, exhilarating moment, mind, body and machine have become one," they really weren't too far off lol. i wish it'd hold 1st (and sometimes 2nd) gear a bit longer when you're in PWR mode but oh well, i realize i wasn't exactly their intended buyer with this car haha.

but yea i found it a bit amusing how when i recently brought the car into the toyota dealer to change the front sway bar bushings (i used to work there so let's just say the price i pay is quite reasonable), i parked my LS next to some new camrys and avalons and you'd really never guess how vastly different a car it is. the dimensions are nearly identical to the avalon, the camry is only 4.5 inches shorter, and both have bigger wheels and come up much higher on the sides. i'd love to race against the new avalon i imagine it'd be quite close... win or lose i'll still be more comfortable lol.