tomeyeman

Okay......at the risk of beating a dead horse deader..... I'm going to take another shot at my timing.

Step 1: I mananged to get to everything without taking out the radiator this time. In fact, I think I can do it blindfold by now.

Step 2: At this point, both cam marks like up with the marks on the block (lines) AND the crank pulley mark is lined up at ZERO. As I did this, I had a long screwdriver in the # 1 plug hole and I watched it go up, up, up to the top at it rotated to ZERO.

NOW I STOP!

Can I assume that as I continue to rotate the crank pulley to 50 degree ATDC (to line up with the pulley bolt as instructed) that I am not 180 degrees out of wack?

Once I verify this, I will continue my quest and I will get this timing correct or die trying. Okay, well I won't go until death. More like until next week when the dealer opens

etex

Just be sure it looks like the second (bottom) photo posted by Billy Powell with the timing belt in place....

billydpowe

iTrader: (1)

my keyway was at 1 oclock.

tomeyeman

Okay, here's where I'm at now. With everything off except the timing belt and tensioners, I can see the cam marks are both lined up and the timing pulley is at ZERO.

So from here, if I'm understanding, I rotate the crank to about 50 degrees clockwise so that the timing mark is in line with the idler pulley bolt and the crank bolt (see my preschool drawing on the photo).

From there I can take the crank bolt and pulley off (it's not on very tight now so it will come off easily without disturbing the previously set alignment). THEN I can once again verify the crank markings (I only saw a indented dash line before and not the dot everyone says their crank has). Hopefully I can see something I didn't see before. I'll post a picture of it too.

So does this sound/look correct so far?

tomeyeman

Here is my crankshaft pulley after rotating it 50 degrees clockwise (to put the mark in line with the idler pulley bolt:

Attachment 172780

Here is my left (drivers side) camshaft pulley after rotation:



And here is the right cam pulley with mark rotated down:



Still looking correct so far??

The left cam mark is easy to align. The right cam mark is down to the right and below the belt a little. The only way to get the line on the belt to match up with the line on the pulley is to "eyeball" it and count teeth so that it will match up when it rotates. In other words, it's about 2-3 teeth rotated clockwise for the belt to touch it.

Correct??

etex

Confirm this with Billy Powell, but I think your crank should at this point be at TDC instead of 50* ATDC on this engine. I did my 1997 just over two years ago with crank at TDC and cams as yours are now and have since done my 1998 LS just a month ago. The two are different in their alignment, so I may be wrong... but please confirm before going any further.

tomeyeman

Oh crap. BILLY POWELL................WHERE ARE YOU?

etex

In other words, if I'm seeing the cams from the proper angle, bring your crank CCW to Zero and both cams should be in their proper position with the marks behind them.

tomeyeman

Yes, that's how they were. With the crank mark at ZERO, both cam marks line up perfectly. But now, rotating 50 Degrees clockwise, as some tutorials have shown (I think for a 96 LS), put the cam marks where they are in the pictures.

On another note-- I did confirm that my crank mark is simply a notch and not a circle as shown in many photos:

Reference:


My vrank mark:


I'm waiting to take the tensioners and belt off until I can confirm that the 96 does, indeed, need to be 50 degrees ATDC.

Thanks everyone for your help so far. This will be my # 3 timing belt breakdown and I'm really hoping to get it right this time.

tomeyeman

[QUOTE=bmoore;5447592]
These two slashes ended up going on either side of the "dot" that you're talking about. As far as I know, that dot SHOULD be there. Also, keep in mind that you can have everything lined up perfectly, but if you've been rotating things, the crankshaft can be 180* out of sync.
QUOTE]

Hi bmoore,

I was just going back over what you wrote. I can't be 100% positive that I didn't rotate things out of wack. How can you tell if the crank is 180 degrees out of sync? Any easy way before I put it back together? Thanks.

etex

If your belt marks line up precisely with your cam and crank marks at this point, I would say everything is in its proper position. The reference photo of the crank with new belt in place is how you need yours to be, along with the cam belt marks.

I know how frustrating it can be, but you'll feel better knowing it's done right before you turn the ignition key. Your next challenge from right now may be the TB tensioner, as it will have to be loosened to remove and reinstall the TB... You may even find it easier to buy a new tensioner as you probably will not be able to get the pin back into the one now installed. Some will say just go with it as is, but I'd pull the belt and be positive all marks align. That will be your call... Good luck.

tomeyeman

Thanks. I've had the tensioner off a few times already. I have been using a C-clamp to get the pin back in and holding it with a small allen wrench. This tensioner was replaced 2 1/2 years ago when the dealer did the last belt/water pump changed (or DID they........come to think of it did they REALLY change the water pump seeing that it went back in only 2 1/2 years). I'm assuming it's alright to reuse the tensioner. Seems stong/tight ??

The REALLY frustrating thing is that everything looks to have been done 100% correctly. I was hoping by taking it off AGAIN, that I would see something that I did wrong last time.........but it all looks good to me so.........Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh.............I'm going to lunch! When I have my motivation back up, I will remove the tensioner and belt and (for the 3rd time) like all the marks up and see how it goes.

I renewed my AAA membership last week so I'm not above towing it it. This is it for me. It either works this time or becomes someone else's problem. I'm out of ideas.

etex

Again, I know your frustration, but you're almost there. If and when your belt marks go to the correct positions with things as they now are, you'll know for sure there is no 180-degree error lurking back there. Tensioner should be okay from what I'm hearing.

tomeyeman

Cool. Then I'm ready.

A quick review:

1st timing belt swap: About 3 weeks ago. Car began to overheat and no heat from vents prompting me to conclude it was the water pump which was replaced 2 1/2 yrs ago at dealer. New water pump went on fine, got everything back together including new timing belt and felt good about it. Then I started the car. It was hard to start--had to give it a little gas and then 'chuga, chuga, chuga'.......sounded a little like the 'Little Engine that Could". Ran it for about 2 minutes and shut it down to do a little more research.

2nd timing belt fix: About 2 weeks ago, I read/learned that my 96 was supposed to be set at 50 degrees ATDC. SWEET! So THAT'S the problem. I broke it down and did as directed. Then started it. It sounded EXACTLY the same. The "Little Engine That Could....chuga, chuga, chuga.....with some gas and upping the RPM it was a faster chuga, chuga, chuga. I drove it around the block and brought it back home. It cut off when I let off the gas.

3rd timing belt fix: SO here I am. Everything broke down. I felt 100% confident I had it right last time and still feel that way.....but what the hell do I know. So I will take the belt off once again, line it up and put it all back together.

I'm now wondering.........could the belt be correct and something else be out of wack? Sure sounds like the timing so I've been concentrating on that. It would be a hellova coinendence if it ran perfect before changing the belt and not actually be the belt causing the trouble.

I went ahead and ordered a "real" timing belt with the R-cam and L-cam markings but I have no idea when it will arrive.

Thanks again. Wish me luck. In the meantime I will have to 'slum it' in my 68 Mustang (but no a/c in North Carolina is no fun this time of year).

etex

I am not confirming the need for 50-degree ATDC crank setting. My 1997 did not require this. The original problem of running hot may not even be related to the timing... I am only trying to help with the timing problem to help you get the belt on properly and eliminate that as a possibility. I wish you well and will be watching and hoping for a favorable outcome for you. If I see something I have personally encountered, I'll chime in to that extent. Did you find a problem with the water pump you removed? Was it an OEM pump?

Mustangs aren't all that bad....