TommyJames

First lets start with the volumes in all these cars you mention. EXTREMELY TINY. Then lets looks a little further, McLaren came from a race culture to begin with. My very point. Pagani took YEARS to build a reputation, and they still build very few cars, also came from an exotic car culture to begin with at Lamborghini. Koenigsegg began in 2004 and is STILL having difficulty building a reputation. One was offered to me not long ago for a fraction of it's MSRP. All of these, every one is still struggling to cement their customer base and build a culture. They are all in the boutique category as is SSC with their Ultimate Aero. SSC is making huge progress, but they know it too will be a long haul and they held a world speed record for almost three years.

You do raise some good points about the 500 built on the LFA, but 500 is actually a lot of cars when you're trying to sustain values. Remember the Vector? The problem is that there is this assumption that simply because there is a limited number built that they will somehow be coveted. Some of these companies bank on it only to find out that customers are just not there.

We've learned so far that demand wasn't what Lexus tried to get people to believe. Still, that does NOT mean the LFA has been a failure. Given that the cars didn't sell out immediately, it does call into question the ability to sustain values on the used market. This applies to EVERY manufacturer sitting on production slots, again NOT unique to Lexus.

TommyJames

Since you don't think resale is a consideration for a real car guy, I've got some purchase suggestions for you, such as a brand new Bentley Flying Spur, or how about a very nice BMW 760? There are so many others out there since you think resale isn't an issue. You can still find a new LP640 (there are a couple still out there). How about a F612 or 599? All are GREAT cars, so please jump right in, then come back and post that you didn't mind the loss and that somehow makes you more of a car guy.

Exotic owners RARELY keep their exotic all that long and typically rotate into something new about every two years, often less, and they accept some loss. That hardly makes any of those owners less of an enthusiast. In my book, it makes them even more an enthusiast. I've yet to meet any exotic owner who doesn't look at resale.

jpvarghese

iTrader: (1)

I think there is a misunderstanding of the company and Japanese cars in general. There are fans of Japanese cars and fans of Toyota. Toyota has an intensive history in motorsports that many are not aware of. They've dipped into to nearly every racing venue. Something that no other manufacturer could claim. You're right that the other companies are boutique brands, but they still sold their cars at the astronomical prices they were asking for.

If Toyota was concerned about profitability with the LFA, they could have easily sold many times that 500 amount, at a fraction of the cost. The only problem is that, like all exotics priced and produced at F430/Gallardo levels, it will eventually flood the market and resale will tank. People will get out of these cars and jump into the latest variant. The appeal and anything special about it is lost. I think Toyota was aware of this nature and didn't want the LFA to suffer the same fate. They priced and structured its resale and production in a way that those who really wanted one, got one. Those who got one also understood that they are tied to one for at least 2 years. It's a risky purchase, but it prunes out the buyers who are in it to flip it and get into one because it's the "hottest" thing out at the moment. It's a way to separate the fans from posers, thereby creating an opportunity for an exclusive community for those aware of the brand and the product.

jpvarghese

iTrader: (1)

Resale is, of course, a consideration, but it shouldn't be the defining factor to supercar ownership, like you've been insinuating in this thread. The buyers of the LFA are an interesting breed. Looking at the alternative cars in the market above, below, and about the same price, the LFA would be the last car to be chosen. You will hear the same excuses for not getting into the car. "It's too slow for the price." "It's a Toyota." "The ZO6 is lighter and it doesn't use CF." "The GT-R will kill it around the Nurburgring." "The transmission is too archaic." "You can get a Lamborghini for the same price." Et cetera, et cetera. All this makes the car sound very confusing and like an utter failure, but people still bought it.

And this is my point! They dump it for the next big thing, rendering its predecessor less special and less important. This affects resale. Blame the manufacturer for making too many for too long or making updates and successors too soon. If they were smart they would have bought it on the low when prices stabilized. Instead they were more focused on making a statement by getting into the latest and greatest. What the current breed of exotic owners want is the most out of a car with little to no cost. The only way to get "that" is buying when it's not in style anymore or buying when a reputable manufacturer does what Ferrari did with the F40,50, Enzo. Generally speaking, buying new, for the most part, is stupid.

07grIS350

I did some more research on the price history of the 2000GT and came up with the following items
Sports Car Market – Published Jan 2001
The current owner acquired this 2000GT from the doctor in 1990 after it had covered just 42,228 miles. The car’s engine and gearbox were rebuilt in 1993 at 45,000 miles by its new owners, Maine Line Exotics, specialists in the sales and restoration of 2000GTs, and the body re-painted in correct and original Solar Red in 1995. Complete with factory tool bag, jack and emergency light and described as in “excellent condition in every department,” the car comes with thorough documentation from new, including original title deed, owner’s warranty identification card, service booklet, owners and service-repair manuals
This car sold for $151,000 at the Brooks Hershey auction on October 6, 2000. The price, which included the buyer’s premium, was well over the auction company’s high estimate of $110,000.
The 2000GT will always be an orphan car, with a limited following. If all the cars owned by the two dealers were to come on the market at the same time, we would likely see a price implosion. However, so long as the supply is strictly limited, prices for good cars should stay in the $100,000-$150,000 range
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/car-r...-toyota-2000gt

From the February, 2009 issue of Automobile Magazine
In 1968, the 2000GT's $7230 list price far exceeded those of better-known sports cars such as the Chevrolet Corvette ($4663), the Jaguar E-type ($5559), and even the Porsche 911 ($6190).
Toyota 2000GTs very rarely come up for sale. In a thinly traded market, one dealer, Maine Line Exotics in Biddeford, Maine, has achieved "market-maker" status by moving a good number of the 2000GTs that have changed hands in the past few years. At press time, they had one car, a white targa, in stock. The asking price? $285,000.
What to Pay
Expect to pay more than $200,000 for fully sorted street versions. For competition models, prices will vary with history and condition.

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...0gt/index.html

Hemmings Motor News - MARCH 1, 2010

It's remarkable when the market price of a car triples in just five years, but in the case of the Toyota 2000GT, it's not unprecedented. We found a classified from a 1975 issue of Road & Track with an asking price of $16,000--which, though it seems a paltry sum today, was well more than double what the car had sold for new, or, seen another way, enough to cover the cost of three late-model Jaguar E-Types. Even then, enthusiasts recognized the 2000GT as something special.

With so few in existence, there's not a lot of auction history for the car. And yet, what records there are show a steady increase in price over the past five years. In May 2006, a 2000GT sold for the equivalent of $210,000 at auction in Australia, doubling its pre-sale estimates. Two months later, another 2000GT brought $226,000 at auction in France. And the upward trend seems to be accelerating. Last fall, a German dealer advertised one example for $400,000; at this moment, one U.S. dealer has a 46,000-mile coupe for sale with an asking price of $495,000

http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/..._feature8.html

TommyJames

Thanks for doing this research. The next question is how many remain on the roads and what are the significant features of those where the asking price is that high? Such as car #, specific features, etc., Again, one would have to look at the value line, see how long it took, etc. The comps new are good relative values, however I don't think where was a super car category just yet back then. For relative values, I guess a Rolls Royce/Bentley may shed some light given they were the most expensive car of the day.