WHY are these two Focal speakers different?
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WHY are these two Focal speakers different?
Focal guru's, was there a change in the model between last year and this year?
Why are these two sets of Access 165 A1 different?
The tweeters, crossovers, and mids are all different.
Why are these two sets of Access 165 A1 different?
The tweeters, crossovers, and mids are all different.
The change for this year is the new mids utilizes and actualy metal phase plug that's separate from the cone. I believe the previous mids had the phase plug integrated into the cone, and was made out of polypropylene. The old mid's cone were made out of fiberglass, but the new ones have weaving in them just like you see in carbon fiber hoods.
The previous set uses the TN 47 tweeters while the new set uses the TN 44 version. Changes were made to the crossover because the TN47 were 8ohm and the TN 44s are 4ohm. They had to change a few things in the crossover network to utilize that 4ohm configuration.
As far as performance, the new tweeters are more efficient, but the frequency response isn't as flat as the TN47 (which are higher end). The TN44 tweeters rolls off at about 3khz (fs= ~3.0khz). There is almost a difference of 6db in response (rolls off) between 3.0khz and 20,0khz. Ideally, it should be HP around 6.0khz, but you're able to get away with a lower xover point depending on our mounting axis and crossover steepness.
The older TN47 ideally should be crossed at ~ 4.0khz since its FS is ~2.0khz. If mounting on-axis, the tweeter has a difference of ~3db at most from 2.0khz-20khz. (ignoring environmental factors).
The old mids look fine to me, except for a slight boost around 1.0khz, by approximately 5db. The new mids are able to extend to 6khz to comphensate for the Tn44's lack of low end extention. It comes with a price though because from 3-6khz, there is a pretty nasty spike. The new mids aren't exactly as smooth in frequency response as the old mids.
ok i'm done. sorry for the long post
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The previous set uses the TN 47 tweeters while the new set uses the TN 44 version. Changes were made to the crossover because the TN47 were 8ohm and the TN 44s are 4ohm. They had to change a few things in the crossover network to utilize that 4ohm configuration.
As far as performance, the new tweeters are more efficient, but the frequency response isn't as flat as the TN47 (which are higher end). The TN44 tweeters rolls off at about 3khz (fs= ~3.0khz). There is almost a difference of 6db in response (rolls off) between 3.0khz and 20,0khz. Ideally, it should be HP around 6.0khz, but you're able to get away with a lower xover point depending on our mounting axis and crossover steepness.
The older TN47 ideally should be crossed at ~ 4.0khz since its FS is ~2.0khz. If mounting on-axis, the tweeter has a difference of ~3db at most from 2.0khz-20khz. (ignoring environmental factors).
The old mids look fine to me, except for a slight boost around 1.0khz, by approximately 5db. The new mids are able to extend to 6khz to comphensate for the Tn44's lack of low end extention. It comes with a price though because from 3-6khz, there is a pretty nasty spike. The new mids aren't exactly as smooth in frequency response as the old mids.
ok i'm done. sorry for the long post
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Damn good info. So are you saying that the "other" set is legit? I just wanna be sure because I was shipped a set and I am weary because they were from hong kong.
Take a look at these pics and tell me. www.lextech.org/images/stuff/focal
Take a look at these pics and tell me. www.lextech.org/images/stuff/focal
Last edited by O. L. T.; Jul 27, 2006 at 11:48 PM.
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More info from another forum:
Originally Posted by ray@ss
the access a1 no longer exsist the way you knew them, they are now the polyglassv1's.
the old style access are not made any more. so thye came out with the polyglass v1's, at the same price point.
the new access a1's retail for 100.00 less this year, come with the phase plug, and new tweeters.
ummm personally if you can get the old access get them. or jump up to the polyglass v1's. not a huge fan of the new access for that price point. still not bad but not the old access for sure.
lets see here.... the cones are a carbon weave of some sort instead of the imbedded ones.. and the new baskets suck..imo.
the tweeters are tinny..imo.
but ive been selling alot more focal because of there price at this level.
anything else?
the old style access are not made any more. so thye came out with the polyglass v1's, at the same price point.
the new access a1's retail for 100.00 less this year, come with the phase plug, and new tweeters.
ummm personally if you can get the old access get them. or jump up to the polyglass v1's. not a huge fan of the new access for that price point. still not bad but not the old access for sure.
lets see here.... the cones are a carbon weave of some sort instead of the imbedded ones.. and the new baskets suck..imo.
the tweeters are tinny..imo.
but ive been selling alot more focal because of there price at this level.
anything else?
the revisions are legit. The set you have seems to be legit. Off the top of my head, only the polyglass and polykevlar series were counterfeited. Fake xover network tends to look cheesy like this:
Fake tweeters look like this:
There are a lot of copies out there, hence why i never buy internationally. Too much of a risk
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Fake tweeters look like this:
There are a lot of copies out there, hence why i never buy internationally. Too much of a risk
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Originally Posted by O. L. T.
More info from another forum:
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I answered my initial question of authenticity when I found the black cone focals on www.focal-fr.com (the french website). ...as these did indeed get shipped to me from overseas.
So to clear the air, I want THESE and not the newer components, correct? I asked because I put down $300 at Tweeter today for the newer version that is being next day aired in (tomorrow) after these arrived and they weren't what the pic showed (which was the newer version).
I can still reject them.
So to clear the air, I want THESE and not the newer components, correct? I asked because I put down $300 at Tweeter today for the newer version that is being next day aired in (tomorrow) after these arrived and they weren't what the pic showed (which was the newer version).
I can still reject them.
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Yes. the older one is what you want. The new one doesn't seem like its that great. Having the mids play up that high doesn't sound too good, at least on paper. The frequency response of the mids and tweeters are definitely not as smooth. Its varies too much and there are too much spikes and dips.
BTW, what happened to the USD audio setup?
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BTW, what happened to the USD audio setup?
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This is for a custom setup in my SC400 
The USD and K2p's are in my IS300.
I think I might have to order a few more set's of these 165 A1's now. I can buy 5 set's for what I paid tweeter for that one set today of updated 165 A1's.
No, I didn't stutter.. dude in Honk Kong is blowing them out for $62 per set.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320007394305
The USD and K2p's are in my IS300.
I think I might have to order a few more set's of these 165 A1's now. I can buy 5 set's for what I paid tweeter for that one set today of updated 165 A1's.
No, I didn't stutter.. dude in Honk Kong is blowing them out for $62 per set.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320007394305
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The "fake" version actually has a better xover cap....!
The focals look like relabeled Bennic caps. Aeons are a bit more high end.
Percy
The focals look like relabeled Bennic caps. Aeons are a bit more high end.
Percy
Originally Posted by GSteg
the revisions are legit. The set you have seems to be legit. Off the top of my head, only the polyglass and polykevlar series were counterfeited. Fake xover network tends to look cheesy like this:
Fake tweeters look like this:
There are a lot of copies out there, hence why i never buy internationally. Too much of a risk
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1999 Lexus GS400
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Fake tweeters look like this:
There are a lot of copies out there, hence why i never buy internationally. Too much of a risk
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1999 Lexus GS400
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Originally Posted by Percy
The "fake" version actually has a better xover cap....!
The focals look like relabeled Bennic caps. Aeons are a bit more high end.
Percy
The focals look like relabeled Bennic caps. Aeons are a bit more high end.
Percy
The resistors and inductor on the fake one looks like crap though.
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Best resistors that I've found so far are the ones from Ohmite. Very good sounding. They're wire wound with a ceramic shell. The sandcast ones (looks like a white bar) are absolute crap. It gets even worse when you look at the Rainbow Reference crossovers...very small discrete components...not really capable of any high power going through them. I had a picture of them somewhere, but not too many people are willing to open up their xovers.
Coils don't look too bad, but it looks like they have been wound on a high speed tension machine. The only coils that I would use are from either Alpha Core/Goertz (acceptable to me!) or the ones that are wound on a very low tension (reduces stress cracks...affects the final value and sound), low resistance wire. We're talking 8 guage or larger. MUCH more at ease on the midrange. A 1 mH coil wound with the big stuff is LARGER than the diameter of a CD!!!
Too bad the car audio/home audio people are still counting their pennies.
Percy
Coils don't look too bad, but it looks like they have been wound on a high speed tension machine. The only coils that I would use are from either Alpha Core/Goertz (acceptable to me!) or the ones that are wound on a very low tension (reduces stress cracks...affects the final value and sound), low resistance wire. We're talking 8 guage or larger. MUCH more at ease on the midrange. A 1 mH coil wound with the big stuff is LARGER than the diameter of a CD!!!
Too bad the car audio/home audio people are still counting their pennies.
Percy