Hey P Ditty & Gene!!!
04-18-01, 10:11 PM
#1
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P & Gene,
Giving you the lastest update. I've been experiencing some problems trying to cut a deal for the RF Symmetry EPX2 (Current owner not trying to lower $$, unit was being used in a competition car on the USAC/ISAC [?? acronym correct] circuit).
Because of this, I'm seriously leaning towards not getting the RF Sym at this time. This would free up some $$ to go ahead & get the Dynaudio pieces. Remember I was originally going to get the Dyn MW130 tweets & the Dyn MW160 (? the 7" driver, could be the MW170) midbass.
(1) Is the 7" Dynaudio driver the MW160 or MW170?
(2) Without the RF Sym & 28 band card, how good will these speakers be sonically (is that a word? :eek: ) over the Diamond Hex series & just in general??
(3) NOTE: I'm embarrassed to say, but I do have an old faithful Sony XE-90 that I could use until the RF Sym deal comes around. Should I even use that piece with the Dyns or should I just use them with no equalization until I'm ready for the Symmetry or equivalent?
(4) Using the Dyn's up front, what type of rear fill should I use? I'm not concerned with how the different forms of media sound to rear passengers, as they a very rare. I'm more concerned with a much more critical & accurate sound from up front.
(5) The Dyn's in the new door panels, yes door panels not kicks, are being powered 75 watts to the tweets & another 75 to the midbass. Is this too much power?
Not enough, what?? :eek:
(6) Center channel? Manufacturer, model?
(7) Any other suggestions or anything I'm overlooking?
Just wanting to get all of my ducks in a row for my May 5th install. How important is this? Get this, I'm actually getting married this May 5, 2001 in the afternoon & I will be dropping of my SC to my installer before the wedding that morning
. Tai (the installer & owner of Car Trendz of Alexandria, Virginia) will be working on the car for about 2 weeks while I'm on my honeymoon in Mexico & Cayman Islands.
Damn, where's my beach gear??!! Here I come!
Marken , aka "Lexlyf"
"We don't need no stinkin' batches!!"
http://www.swiftracing.com
Giving you the lastest update. I've been experiencing some problems trying to cut a deal for the RF Symmetry EPX2 (Current owner not trying to lower $$, unit was being used in a competition car on the USAC/ISAC [?? acronym correct] circuit).
Because of this, I'm seriously leaning towards not getting the RF Sym at this time. This would free up some $$ to go ahead & get the Dynaudio pieces. Remember I was originally going to get the Dyn MW130 tweets & the Dyn MW160 (? the 7" driver, could be the MW170) midbass.
(1) Is the 7" Dynaudio driver the MW160 or MW170?
(2) Without the RF Sym & 28 band card, how good will these speakers be sonically (is that a word? :eek: ) over the Diamond Hex series & just in general??
(3) NOTE: I'm embarrassed to say, but I do have an old faithful Sony XE-90 that I could use until the RF Sym deal comes around. Should I even use that piece with the Dyns or should I just use them with no equalization until I'm ready for the Symmetry or equivalent?
(4) Using the Dyn's up front, what type of rear fill should I use? I'm not concerned with how the different forms of media sound to rear passengers, as they a very rare. I'm more concerned with a much more critical & accurate sound from up front.
(5) The Dyn's in the new door panels, yes door panels not kicks, are being powered 75 watts to the tweets & another 75 to the midbass. Is this too much power?
Not enough, what?? :eek:
(6) Center channel? Manufacturer, model?
(7) Any other suggestions or anything I'm overlooking?
Just wanting to get all of my ducks in a row for my May 5th install. How important is this? Get this, I'm actually getting married this May 5, 2001 in the afternoon & I will be dropping of my SC to my installer before the wedding that morning
. Tai (the installer & owner of Car Trendz of Alexandria, Virginia) will be working on the car for about 2 weeks while I'm on my honeymoon in Mexico & Cayman Islands.Damn, where's my beach gear??!! Here I come!
Marken , aka "Lexlyf"
"We don't need no stinkin' batches!!"
http://www.swiftracing.com
04-19-01, 09:28 AM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
My Input
Marken - P's the DynAudio guru but I'll throw in what info I have. The 7" driver is the MW 160 & the 75 wpc for the tweets & mids is right in the middle of Dyn's specs for power handling so U should be OK there. Personally ( being in USAC/SPL country ), I'd put more power on the mids but the tweets should love the 75 watts - remember that the Dyns are VERY efficient so a little goes a long way. About the EQ - the Dyns will sound good without any equalization & only get better with some. I don't like temporary installations myself so, IMO, I'd wait for the Symmetry & not use the Sony piece unless your installer can just tuck it away somewhere. I'd hate for him to fabricate a bracket for it to be used for only a short time & then need another bracket for the RF unit but that's just me. The dispersion pattern on Dyns is quite wide so a center channel probably won't be need & can be added later - my kicks eliminated that problem but I see U don't want kickpanels & that's cool. Plus, I've never done an S/C to know how much room there is under the dash for a center channel!! For rear fill, I'd try the same setup as the front for a balanced sound without dragging the soundstage backward. As mine is a competition setup, I only have 8" Diamond woofers in my rear doors so the rear passengers can't hear any highs ( no tweeters ) & without proper tuning, the bass from them pulled the soundstage rearward somewhat ( not good for SQ points! ). My original system had 2 sets of Diamond HEX 6.5 components ( all 4 doors ) & it was quite pleasing & adequate until the competition bug bit again. U R wise to line things up before departing because what happens if your installer needs to know where U want things or has other questions? I'd sit down with him & go over the ENTIRE plan to make sure that you're both in agreement on things. Decide on speaker wire sizing/routing & interconnects, as well. BTW - rest assured that SOMETHING will come up!! These R the late nights Percy & I kid each other about involving Pepsi & pizza!! Hope I've helped because I now sound like P's latest convert to Dyns, don't i??!! Ya never know! Good luck with your marriage!!
Hope I've helped because I now sound like P's latest convert to Dyns, don't i??!! Ya never know! Good luck with your marriage!!
04-19-01, 10:23 AM
#3
Moderator - Electronics Forum
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lexlyf
[B]P & Gene,
Giving you the lastest update. I've been experiencing some problems trying to cut a deal for the RF Symmetry EPX2 (Current owner not trying to lower $$, unit was being used in a competition car on the USAC/ISAC [?? acronym correct] circuit).
Because of this, I'm seriously leaning towards not getting the RF Sym at this time. This would free up some $$ to go ahead & get the Dynaudio pieces. Remember I was originally going to get the Dyn MW130 tweets & the Dyn MW160 (? the 7" driver, could be the MW170) midbass.
(1) Is the 7" Dynaudio driver the MW160 or MW170?
It's the 160. Do NOT use the 170 unless you're building a custom kick panel as the doors will not be deep enough. I've tried.
(2) Without the RF Sym & 28 band card, how good will these speakers be sonically (is that a word? :eek: ) over the Diamond Hex series & just in general??
The Dyns aren't as "warm" sounding, but overall detail and transparency is where the Dyns reign supreme. Still, plenty of midbass, the "just right" amount whereas the Diamonds are overdoing it a bit. Also, the Diamonds aren't as clean in the mids.
(3) NOTE: I'm embarrassed to say, but I do have an old faithful Sony XE-90 that I could use until the RF Sym deal comes around. Should I even use that piece with the Dyns or should I just use them with no equalization until I'm ready for the Symmetry or equivalent?
Go ahead and use it! Just save up for a good outboard processor later. Remember, if you're only going to do it once, do it right.
(4) Using the Dyn's up front, what type of rear fill should I use? I'm not concerned with how the different forms of media sound to rear passengers, as they a very rare. I'm more concerned with a much more critical & accurate sound from up front.
I'd still put in a set of Dyns in the back just to match up the sonics that you'll have up front. Tweets aren't needed, but if they're installed they can sound superb. Just have to tune them out correctly.
(5) The Dyn's in the new door panels, yes door panels not kicks, are being powered 75 watts to the tweets & another 75 to the midbass. Is this too much power?
Good amount. I'd still recommend 100 wpc rms, though the Dyns can take up to 200 wpc (or more!) due to the larger voice coil. Diamond doesn't have the lightweight coil or the larger diameter so it can't handle nearly as much.
(6) Center channel? Manufacturer, model?
No idea.
(7) Any other suggestions or anything I'm overlooking?
Depends...what does your system have now?
Percy
[B]P & Gene,
Giving you the lastest update. I've been experiencing some problems trying to cut a deal for the RF Symmetry EPX2 (Current owner not trying to lower $$, unit was being used in a competition car on the USAC/ISAC [?? acronym correct] circuit).
Because of this, I'm seriously leaning towards not getting the RF Sym at this time. This would free up some $$ to go ahead & get the Dynaudio pieces. Remember I was originally going to get the Dyn MW130 tweets & the Dyn MW160 (? the 7" driver, could be the MW170) midbass.
(1) Is the 7" Dynaudio driver the MW160 or MW170?
It's the 160. Do NOT use the 170 unless you're building a custom kick panel as the doors will not be deep enough. I've tried.
(2) Without the RF Sym & 28 band card, how good will these speakers be sonically (is that a word? :eek: ) over the Diamond Hex series & just in general??
The Dyns aren't as "warm" sounding, but overall detail and transparency is where the Dyns reign supreme. Still, plenty of midbass, the "just right" amount whereas the Diamonds are overdoing it a bit. Also, the Diamonds aren't as clean in the mids.
(3) NOTE: I'm embarrassed to say, but I do have an old faithful Sony XE-90 that I could use until the RF Sym deal comes around. Should I even use that piece with the Dyns or should I just use them with no equalization until I'm ready for the Symmetry or equivalent?
Go ahead and use it! Just save up for a good outboard processor later. Remember, if you're only going to do it once, do it right.
(4) Using the Dyn's up front, what type of rear fill should I use? I'm not concerned with how the different forms of media sound to rear passengers, as they a very rare. I'm more concerned with a much more critical & accurate sound from up front.
I'd still put in a set of Dyns in the back just to match up the sonics that you'll have up front. Tweets aren't needed, but if they're installed they can sound superb. Just have to tune them out correctly.
(5) The Dyn's in the new door panels, yes door panels not kicks, are being powered 75 watts to the tweets & another 75 to the midbass. Is this too much power?
Good amount. I'd still recommend 100 wpc rms, though the Dyns can take up to 200 wpc (or more!) due to the larger voice coil. Diamond doesn't have the lightweight coil or the larger diameter so it can't handle nearly as much.
(6) Center channel? Manufacturer, model?
No idea.
(7) Any other suggestions or anything I'm overlooking?
Depends...what does your system have now?
Percy
04-20-01, 09:34 PM
#4
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Diamond rear fill??
Thanks for your input again P & Gene, I was wondering how the Diamond Hex's would sound as rear fill while using the Dyn's up front? My only reason for using them would really be for "rear surround" when playing dvd-type media (since no one is interested in buying them, I might as well use them). I would adjust the gain on the rear fill amp or the fader on the eq to only suggest a hint of rear fill, as to not pull the listening position of the system rearward (or not bash you over the head with rear fill).
If I also plan to get the Apline Dolby piece, I guess I would need a dedicated speaker for a center channel. I could get a couple of 3.5"s (??) & mount them on the back of my rear view mirror. This way, the majority of the center channel programming would bounce of the front windshield & into the listening area. Yes/no, what are your thoughts?
Time is getting closer, I will order the Dyn's on Monday & my heart is ticking :eek: . Could I really be converting into a SQ guy??!!
If I also plan to get the Apline Dolby piece, I guess I would need a dedicated speaker for a center channel. I could get a couple of 3.5"s (??) & mount them on the back of my rear view mirror. This way, the majority of the center channel programming would bounce of the front windshield & into the listening area. Yes/no, what are your thoughts?
Time is getting closer, I will order the Dyn's on Monday & my heart is ticking :eek: . Could I really be converting into a SQ guy??!!
Last edited by lexlyf; 04-20-01 at 09:57 PM.
04-21-01, 06:07 AM
#5
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Marken,
As long as the rear fill is tuned out correctly, the Dyn/Diamond combo should be ok. It might be different once when you start going into the realm of multichannel audio. Midrange, midbass and treble are quite different from one another and the soundstage in a multichannel setup may sound unusual. Reason being is that the levels in a multichannel AC3/DTS/Dolby Digital setup requires higher levels from the rear speakers, not just a "fill" level. That's where you'll hear differences throughout the spectrum.
The 3.5's seem like an interesting idea...but watch out for phase problems. Sound bouncing off the windshield will have a delay...you might want to invert the polarity to compensate. Also, if you're running Dolby Pro Logic with a phantom center channel, you won't really need a center channel due to it's processing. DTS/AC3 are a different matter though as their spec for these two requires a FULL RANGE center, or at least down to 70 hz. Dolby really upped the ante when they designed the ac3/dts system.
Which Dyns did you order? Remember to retune the system when you have Dyns installed for best performance!
Percy
As long as the rear fill is tuned out correctly, the Dyn/Diamond combo should be ok. It might be different once when you start going into the realm of multichannel audio. Midrange, midbass and treble are quite different from one another and the soundstage in a multichannel setup may sound unusual. Reason being is that the levels in a multichannel AC3/DTS/Dolby Digital setup requires higher levels from the rear speakers, not just a "fill" level. That's where you'll hear differences throughout the spectrum.
The 3.5's seem like an interesting idea...but watch out for phase problems. Sound bouncing off the windshield will have a delay...you might want to invert the polarity to compensate. Also, if you're running Dolby Pro Logic with a phantom center channel, you won't really need a center channel due to it's processing. DTS/AC3 are a different matter though as their spec for these two requires a FULL RANGE center, or at least down to 70 hz. Dolby really upped the ante when they designed the ac3/dts system.
Which Dyns did you order? Remember to retune the system when you have Dyns installed for best performance!
Percy
04-21-01, 07:29 AM
#6
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I'm ordering the MW130 tweets (the best in the car audi biz?) & the MW160 midbasses (7" woofer).
I may decide to replace the MW160's with the MW170's (8" midbass). I have instructed my installer to make the depth of brand new door panels to be 4" & should accomodate the Dyn 8" driver. The door panel will also close in the former map pockets of the SC, utilizing the created cubic inch area of space for better quality sound.
Concerning the MW170's (8'' drivers), if I use these with the 130 tweets, will it cause a sonic gap??
Oh yeah, the opening of the map pockets will be enclosed using plexiglass & I hope to install neon lighting underneath the door arm rests just above the map pocket. If I keep the Diamonds for the rear, I'll put the show quality crossovers in there & show em off.
I may decide to replace the MW160's with the MW170's (8" midbass). I have instructed my installer to make the depth of brand new door panels to be 4" & should accomodate the Dyn 8" driver. The door panel will also close in the former map pockets of the SC, utilizing the created cubic inch area of space for better quality sound.
Concerning the MW170's (8'' drivers), if I use these with the 130 tweets, will it cause a sonic gap??
Oh yeah, the opening of the map pockets will be enclosed using plexiglass & I hope to install neon lighting underneath the door arm rests just above the map pocket. If I keep the Diamonds for the rear, I'll put the show quality crossovers in there & show em off.
Last edited by lexlyf; 04-21-01 at 07:32 AM.
04-21-01, 08:31 AM
#7
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Marken,
No sonic gap since the MD130's can be crossed over at 2500hz. VERY good for a tweeter! The MW170 has a natural rolloff of 4khz but can be crossed over at 3khz or lower. If you take an RTA (real time analyzer) to your system after it's done and if you still have any "holes" in frequency response, then I would suggest an adjustable crossover/parametric eq. But, you shouldn't have any problem. If I remember right, Dyn's stock crossover is at 3khz for the tweeter.
MD130's ARE the best in car audio. The only thing better is the ESOTAR T330D but that's a home driver. Absolutely outstanding and it's used in the 85,000 dollar home Dynaudio Evidence speaker. Not recommended for car audio use unless you're planning on replacing them every few months. They were designed for room temperature...not sub zero and over 100 degree temps of the car. IMO, there is no better tweeter than the MD130's for the car and the T330D's for home. B&W doesn't stand a chance.
Percy
No sonic gap since the MD130's can be crossed over at 2500hz. VERY good for a tweeter! The MW170 has a natural rolloff of 4khz but can be crossed over at 3khz or lower. If you take an RTA (real time analyzer) to your system after it's done and if you still have any "holes" in frequency response, then I would suggest an adjustable crossover/parametric eq. But, you shouldn't have any problem. If I remember right, Dyn's stock crossover is at 3khz for the tweeter.
MD130's ARE the best in car audio. The only thing better is the ESOTAR T330D but that's a home driver. Absolutely outstanding and it's used in the 85,000 dollar home Dynaudio Evidence speaker. Not recommended for car audio use unless you're planning on replacing them every few months. They were designed for room temperature...not sub zero and over 100 degree temps of the car. IMO, there is no better tweeter than the MD130's for the car and the T330D's for home. B&W doesn't stand a chance.
Percy
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04-21-01, 10:17 AM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Welcome Aboard!
Marken - Plenty of room on the SQ wagon for another!! I agree that the Diamonds will work well as rear fill to complement the Dyns. Just be careful about what U use for a center channel. Highs reflecting off a windshield can get MBQ bright! Hey, P - what about molding one of the Dyn MD140/2 3" midranges into some form of enclosure/mounting bracket on the back of Marken's windshield? Slim mounting depth & good frequency range for a center channel. I've found that in the car environment ( due to the close proximity of the speakers to the listeners ) that the center channel isn't so much responsible for vocals like in a home system. Rather, in a multi-media setup, it smooths the transition of sounds ( mostly explosions & the like ) from one side to the other ( picture a motorcycle riding from left to right on the screen ). With it on the back of the mirror, it should really have a nice high soundstage!
04-21-01, 03:22 PM
#9
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Gene,
If he can make a custom enclosure for the MD140/3, then the sound will be worth it. Haven't seen it done, but it would be quite interesting!
Percy
If he can make a custom enclosure for the MD140/3, then the sound will be worth it. Haven't seen it done, but it would be quite interesting!
Percy
04-22-01, 02:55 PM
#10
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Sub selection
P Ditty & Gene,
We've talked a lot about what my system aspirations are but I'd like to turn attention to the sub area. Of course, there is the Velodyne, but let's get serious (a lot of cabbage).
How do the both of you feel about the Diamond 10" or 12" offering? What about Dynaudio's? Anything else?
I guess I'm moving away from the "bass that I can heard from 3 blocks away" mentality & gravitating towards something more accurate in frequency response. I guess when it's all said & done, I want it LOUD, CRISP & CLEAN. I want my lower end frequencies & bass to sound as if someone dropped a marble onto a plate of glass (without the glass breaking).
I don't want to get crazy with power, I'd like to use my RF 500a2 to power the subs. If need be i'll get an RF 800a2, but would rather not. I know RF has a new line of amps out, but I would rather buy what I know & save $$ on '00 closeout specials available.
We've talked a lot about what my system aspirations are but I'd like to turn attention to the sub area. Of course, there is the Velodyne, but let's get serious (a lot of cabbage).
How do the both of you feel about the Diamond 10" or 12" offering? What about Dynaudio's? Anything else?
I guess I'm moving away from the "bass that I can heard from 3 blocks away" mentality & gravitating towards something more accurate in frequency response. I guess when it's all said & done, I want it LOUD, CRISP & CLEAN. I want my lower end frequencies & bass to sound as if someone dropped a marble onto a plate of glass (without the glass breaking).
I don't want to get crazy with power, I'd like to use my RF 500a2 to power the subs. If need be i'll get an RF 800a2, but would rather not. I know RF has a new line of amps out, but I would rather buy what I know & save $$ on '00 closeout specials available.
Last edited by lexlyf; 04-23-01 at 03:53 PM.
04-24-01, 07:46 AM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
Not Sure About Diamond Subs
Marken - Only heard one Diamond sub & it was the MackDaddy model ( who thinks up these names?? ). As the name suggests, it was designed for SPL as are all the Focal woofers ( & expensive!! ). I'd stick by the old tried & true JL Audio line - very efficient & responsive. I had 1 infinite-baffle 10" ( drop-in ) on the first system & it was pleasantly sonically pleasing. Just use a sealed box for yours & the 500a2 should be able to run two 12's w/o much trouble because of the efficiency. Might want to stay near the lower end of the recommended enclosure volume & pick up some additional tightness on the bass ( at the loss of SOME lower boom ). Better yet - what about two 10" woofers? U'll lose SPL but 10's are amazingly quick & responsive - just depends on your goals again. Just don't fall for the W0 or W1 lines - they don't last. The W3 series is the way to go - W6's R designed more for SPL than SQ. Getting nervous about the marriage yet!!
04-24-01, 11:29 AM
#12
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Wedding & Dynaudio
Gene, I'm not nervous about the wedding, but I'm sure that will change the moment I'm standing at the alter & the music hits :eek: .
I'm actually more nervous about the install. I've just ordered the Dynaudio speakers & my installer tells me AFTERWARD, that he can't guarantee that he can make the door panels the 4" deep. I have to have the 4" depth to accomodate the Dynaudio MW170 drivers.
I hope like hell they work or I'll be selling the MW170's here. I should have ordered the MW160's instead, but you never know until you try. Yes, I have also ordered the MD130 Dynaudio tweets as well. Way cool!
I'm actually more nervous about the install. I've just ordered the Dynaudio speakers & my installer tells me AFTERWARD, that he can't guarantee that he can make the door panels the 4" deep. I have to have the 4" depth to accomodate the Dynaudio MW170 drivers.
I hope like hell they work or I'll be selling the MW170's here. I should have ordered the MW160's instead, but you never know until you try. Yes, I have also ordered the MD130 Dynaudio tweets as well. Way cool!
04-24-01, 01:54 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
Percy's the Man!!
Marken - If Master SQ himself says they'll fit, then they WILL fit!! BTW - finally saw your ( our!! ) ad in Sport Compact mag. Guess the secret's out now, huh?!
BTW - finally saw your ( our!! ) ad in Sport Compact mag. Guess the secret's out now, huh?!
04-24-01, 02:20 PM
#14
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Marken,
They're a 3 inch mounting depth. Add a little more to clear the window rails. If you're installer is good then he should be able to make them fit just right. If not, sell the MW170's on Ebay or get them returned. Have the installer do a "trial" fit and don't make any marks on the screw/mounting hole locations. In case they have to be returned...
Where are the MD130's going? They're almost as large as the MW150's!
Percy
They're a 3 inch mounting depth. Add a little more to clear the window rails. If you're installer is good then he should be able to make them fit just right. If not, sell the MW170's on Ebay or get them returned. Have the installer do a "trial" fit and don't make any marks on the screw/mounting hole locations. In case they have to be returned...
Where are the MD130's going? They're almost as large as the MW150's!
Percy