Square set up
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 15
From: The Other Chinatown "626"
Square set up
I've been tinkering with idea of going square set up (non-staggered) for a couple of months now. Given the weight and the tendency of understeering characteristics, it'll be beneficial.
I'm considering light weight 19x10 all around with either 265/35 or even 275/30 tires. Choosing the right offset will be the key of course. I'm sure +55 offset will be safe enough to use 275/30. Another possible issue will be choosing the right tire brand. Every tire brand has different tread width even with the same size.
I understand it's not everybody's cup of tea but I'm sure some of the more performance oritented folks will be interested. I'd like to hear your opinions.
Terrance
I'm considering light weight 19x10 all around with either 265/35 or even 275/30 tires. Choosing the right offset will be the key of course. I'm sure +55 offset will be safe enough to use 275/30. Another possible issue will be choosing the right tire brand. Every tire brand has different tread width even with the same size.
I understand it's not everybody's cup of tea but I'm sure some of the more performance oritented folks will be interested. I'd like to hear your opinions.
Terrance
SCCAforums ran 285s on all four corners on Enkei PF-01s in 18" x 9.5" with a +45 offset. If you can find 19x10 in a +50 or +55, you should be good to go. I think a square set up will transform the car from understeer prone to pretty nicely balanced. I'd still like more rubber under the car though. It's really heavy.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 15
From: The Other Chinatown "626"
Lance, I agree. Now the tricky part is to find a set of light weight wheels in those offsets. It could be done but it'll have to be custom offset.
I thought about having KW revalve the coils for 14kgf/mm springs but they won't do it unless you have the race version. Even then, there's not enough contact patch in the front. So I'm using a quick fix solution by running the rear rebound a little harder than the front. And also, running a little more air pressure in the front tires (38psi) compared to the rear (36psi). It helps but it's not enough.
I'm thinking of running a 1/8" toe in in the rear when I go square set up. Possibly a tad stiffer rear anti roll bar but I'll decide on that after I drive the new set up.
Terrance
I thought about having KW revalve the coils for 14kgf/mm springs but they won't do it unless you have the race version. Even then, there's not enough contact patch in the front. So I'm using a quick fix solution by running the rear rebound a little harder than the front. And also, running a little more air pressure in the front tires (38psi) compared to the rear (36psi). It helps but it's not enough.
I'm thinking of running a 1/8" toe in in the rear when I go square set up. Possibly a tad stiffer rear anti roll bar but I'll decide on that after I drive the new set up.
Terrance
1/8" rear toe-in is close to factory. Factory says 3mm +/-2mm, 1/8" is 3.16mm.
Are you running those pressures at the track or on the street? At the track I'm at 32 psi cold, 44 psi hot on all four corners.
Definitely need more spring in the front at the track - inside rear wheels will want to come up even with the OEM tires. It's not bad like most cars, but it wouldn't hurt to have some more spring to keep the rear closer to the ground. Roll bar would be a band-aid, you really want more spring in front.
Are you running those pressures at the track or on the street? At the track I'm at 32 psi cold, 44 psi hot on all four corners.
Definitely need more spring in the front at the track - inside rear wheels will want to come up even with the OEM tires. It's not bad like most cars, but it wouldn't hurt to have some more spring to keep the rear closer to the ground. Roll bar would be a band-aid, you really want more spring in front.
Driver
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Tx
Square setup has the best feel in my opinion. The only staggered setup I liked was on the Porsche.
Remember, compound matters more than width. Ive seen similar cars race with the ones with the widest tire lose because of weight, compound, and driver skill.
Remember, compound matters more than width. Ive seen similar cars race with the ones with the widest tire lose because of weight, compound, and driver skill.
I've been tinkering with idea of going square set up (non-staggered) for a couple of months now. Given the weight and the tendency of understeering characteristics, it'll be beneficial.
I'm considering light weight 19x10 all around with either 265/35 or even 275/30 tires. Choosing the right offset will be the key of course. I'm sure +55 offset will be safe enough to use 275/30. Another possible issue will be choosing the right tire brand. Every tire brand has different tread width even with the same size.
I understand it's not everybody's cup of tea but I'm sure some of the more performance oritented folks will be interested. I'd like to hear your opinions.
Terrance
I'm considering light weight 19x10 all around with either 265/35 or even 275/30 tires. Choosing the right offset will be the key of course. I'm sure +55 offset will be safe enough to use 275/30. Another possible issue will be choosing the right tire brand. Every tire brand has different tread width even with the same size.
I understand it's not everybody's cup of tea but I'm sure some of the more performance oritented folks will be interested. I'd like to hear your opinions.
Terrance
. GOD BLESS R COMPS!
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 27
From: MD
I think non-staggered is a great idea. You could probably go with a 19x9.5 +45 all around with 275/30R19s. It would easily fit in the back, and in the front may require rolling the fenders (but I think it would work without). Are you considering this for a track only setup, or for every day. If for every day, I think the 275/30R19s would be better because they are only .5" shorter than stock height, vice 1.25" shorter with 285/30R18s.
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I think non-staggered is a great idea. You could probably go with a 19x9.5 +45 all around with 275/30R19s. It would easily fit in the back, and in the front may require rolling the fenders (but I think it would work without). Are you considering this for a track only setup, or for every day. If for every day, I think the 275/30R19s would be better because they are only .5" shorter than stock height, vice 1.25" shorter with 285/30R18s.
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My rears being 285-30-18 are almost 4mph off the actual speed. I am actually doing 56.4 mph when I my speedo reads 60mph
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 27
From: MD
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 15
From: The Other Chinatown "626"
I think non-staggered is a great idea. You could probably go with a 19x9.5 +45 all around with 275/30R19s. It would easily fit in the back, and in the front may require rolling the fenders (but I think it would work without). Are you considering this for a track only setup, or for every day. If for every day, I think the 275/30R19s would be better because they are only .5" shorter than stock height, vice 1.25" shorter with 285/30R18s.
Terrance
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 27
From: MD
Squared up idea
What about putting IS-F rear wheels in front? The 19x9's have a backspacing of 55mm. Anybody with a good wheel understanding feel free to chime in. Would it be possible to put a 10mm spacer in the front and mount an extra set of rear wheels. If I understand things correctly, this would give a backspacing of 45mm, which should work fine for a 9" wheel in the front. The only additional thing that might be beneficial would be longer/stronger studs to accommodate the spacer...or am I way off with this idea? 275/30R19s all around would be awesome on stock rims.
I've thought about exactly that, but decided the OEM wheels aren't worth the effort because they're so heavy. I also thought about widening the OEM wheels, but it just makes the offset problems worse because they widen toward the inside. I'd rather run 18" PF-01s without spacers.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 27
From: MD
Yes they are pretty heavy. I just like the look of the 08-09 BBS's. I guess most who are interested with a square setup wouldn't want it for daily driving. Anyway, the thought just popped into my head yesterday, and I wanted to see if anybody thought it would work. Maybe I will try this if I ever come across a totalled 08-09 with undamaged rear wheels.