Reconsidering the Factory Alignment
#286
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Depends. If you are experienced with bushings and have a 20 ton press, no, it's not too hard. If this is your first rodeo, you will hate it. It is very challenging if you have not done this before, especially the front bushing. The blog entries at Figs are invaluable aids to successfully completing the tasks.
I am not considering the steering ECU update, I think it is mandatory with 255s on the front. My wife will complain to no end the first time she drives the car. It will be completed shortly.
I am not considering the steering ECU update, I think it is mandatory with 255s on the front. My wife will complain to no end the first time she drives the car. It will be completed shortly.
#287
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
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Latest alignment attached. The car is driving perfectly, no pull left or right, and with the LSD and bushings, handling is nothing short of transformed. I'll be watching the wear to see if I am in a happy spot, but I have a little bit of toe out dialed into this to help the car turn.
#291
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (7)
So now that Im tracking the car is this the best alignment for the car? Im not concernded about tire wear etc. Just want this big ***** to hug the turns. lol I'm on BR coil-overs, TRD rear sway and RR steering bushings but that's it suspension wise. Thanks guys. My current "factory aliment" is chewing up the outside edges of the tires at the track.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 07-20-17 at 04:49 PM.
#292
Lexus Fanatic
So now that Im tracking the car is this the best alignment for the car? Im not concernded about tire wear etc. Just want this big ***** to hug the turns. lol I'm on BR coil-overs, TRD rear sway and RR steering bushings but that's it suspension wise. Thanks guys. My current "factory aliment" is chewing up the outside edges of the tires at the track.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ5-FAnDT8Q/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ5-FAnDT8Q/
Last edited by lobuxracer; 07-20-17 at 04:52 PM.
#293
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (26)
Lobux, you have my sincere gratitude for creating this thread. Having just bought an F with some terrible inside wear, I came to class and read all 20 pages of your journey. Funny enough, I was just going to head to my alignment guy and tell him to zero out the toe like I do with my E46M but I figured that wouldn't work out so well on the F, go figure.
#294
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I don't run zero toe anymore. I run 1/16" toe out all the time. I know it wears the inside faster, but I like the way the car turns a lot better, and with the stiffer LCA bushings (I have front and rear replaced), I am not getting absurdly short tire wear. I am also running 255/35/19 PSS in the front on the late model wheels. I would add some camber, but the only right way I see to do that is with FIGS upper control arms. I don't trust the adjustable upper balljoints in those sheet metal UCAs to stay where I put them.
#295
I hadn't seen this until now. -2.5 is a good starting point. If you can get information from the tire manufacturer about suggested camber, it would be better. -2.5 is a rule of thumb until you measure temperature across the tread after a session and fine tune.
I don't run zero toe anymore. I run 1/16" toe out all the time. I know it wears the inside faster, but I like the way the car turns a lot better, and with the stiffer LCA bushings (I have front and rear replaced), I am not getting absurdly short tire wear. I am also running 255/35/19 PSS in the front on the late model wheels. I would add some camber, but the only right way I see to do that is with FIGS upper control arms. I don't trust the adjustable upper balljoints in those sheet metal UCAs to stay where I put them.
I don't run zero toe anymore. I run 1/16" toe out all the time. I know it wears the inside faster, but I like the way the car turns a lot better, and with the stiffer LCA bushings (I have front and rear replaced), I am not getting absurdly short tire wear. I am also running 255/35/19 PSS in the front on the late model wheels. I would add some camber, but the only right way I see to do that is with FIGS upper control arms. I don't trust the adjustable upper balljoints in those sheet metal UCAs to stay where I put them.
I had SPC Adj. Balljoint on my car and I'm more on the aggressive side when it comes to driving the F at the track, I had it slip camber on me twice, feels like someone threw a bunch of banana skins on the road and then FIGS came to the rescue, coming from Evo/STI, I never trusted Megan Racing and product they come up with, however, Figs UCA was a work of art.
Below are the pics of my R888's wear, I did drive it on the road + hit if I'm not mistaken around 4-5 track days on them.
#296
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Time for an update. Put these in this weekend:
Set toe out to -0.04 degrees both sides. I've been running this same setting with the Figs 90 durometer polyurethane bushings for quite some time with great success. The difference with the solid bushings can't be understated - NVH is way up and control is a quantum leap better. I relubed the front poly bushings at the same time as they didn't get the right kind of love the first time they were installed. Plenty of grease in all the right spots this time. After alignment two things were very noticeable - straight line braking is now very straight line. No feeling at all of any wander whatsoever. Second is small adjustments in the steering wheel are immediately met with small responses, exactly the way one would hope. The one downside is I now have a camber imbalance with almost perfect caster. This is also not the end of the changes, but that's a different post. Suffice it to say, if you are tracking your car, you'll love the solid bearings.
Set toe out to -0.04 degrees both sides. I've been running this same setting with the Figs 90 durometer polyurethane bushings for quite some time with great success. The difference with the solid bushings can't be understated - NVH is way up and control is a quantum leap better. I relubed the front poly bushings at the same time as they didn't get the right kind of love the first time they were installed. Plenty of grease in all the right spots this time. After alignment two things were very noticeable - straight line braking is now very straight line. No feeling at all of any wander whatsoever. Second is small adjustments in the steering wheel are immediately met with small responses, exactly the way one would hope. The one downside is I now have a camber imbalance with almost perfect caster. This is also not the end of the changes, but that's a different post. Suffice it to say, if you are tracking your car, you'll love the solid bearings.
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#297
Instructor
iTrader: (3)
Great effort documenting subtle differences. I may have read through this some previously, but I just spent the last day reading it again.
there’s a bit of a signal to noise problem I’m going to summarize what I think your conclusions are. Please correct them if needed.
Factory spec has a range and within that range are picking between better turn in or better tire ware. 1/16”out for track and 0 for tire ware.
Adding stiffer bushings gives improved ware at the 1/16” out.
I didn’t see where you changed the front lower control arm bushings on the front suspension. I probably missed it. Was that an interim step? The thread kinda goes cold for a while.
Would you suggest 0 as a start for someone with poly LCA bushings and primarily interested in tire life?
thanks again for documenting all this.
there’s a bit of a signal to noise problem I’m going to summarize what I think your conclusions are. Please correct them if needed.
Factory spec has a range and within that range are picking between better turn in or better tire ware. 1/16”out for track and 0 for tire ware.
Adding stiffer bushings gives improved ware at the 1/16” out.
I didn’t see where you changed the front lower control arm bushings on the front suspension. I probably missed it. Was that an interim step? The thread kinda goes cold for a while.
Would you suggest 0 as a start for someone with poly LCA bushings and primarily interested in tire life?
thanks again for documenting all this.
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lobuxracer (01-23-20)
#298
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Great effort documenting subtle differences. I may have read through this some previously, but I just spent the last day reading it again.
there’s a bit of a signal to noise problem I’m going to summarize what I think your conclusions are. Please correct them if needed.
Factory spec has a range and within that range are picking between better turn in or better tire ware. 1/16”out for track and 0 for tire ware.
Adding stiffer bushings gives improved ware at the 1/16” out.
I didn’t see where you changed the front lower control arm bushings on the front suspension. I probably missed it. Was that an interim step? The thread kinda goes cold for a while.
Would you suggest 0 as a start for someone with poly LCA bushings and primarily interested in tire life?
thanks again for documenting all this.
there’s a bit of a signal to noise problem I’m going to summarize what I think your conclusions are. Please correct them if needed.
Factory spec has a range and within that range are picking between better turn in or better tire ware. 1/16”out for track and 0 for tire ware.
Adding stiffer bushings gives improved ware at the 1/16” out.
I didn’t see where you changed the front lower control arm bushings on the front suspension. I probably missed it. Was that an interim step? The thread kinda goes cold for a while.
Would you suggest 0 as a start for someone with poly LCA bushings and primarily interested in tire life?
thanks again for documenting all this.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 01-23-20 at 08:57 PM.
#299
Time for an update. Put these in this weekend:
Set toe out to -0.04 degrees both sides. I've been running this same setting with the Figs 90 durometer polyurethane bushings for quite some time with great success. The difference with the solid bushings can't be understated - NVH is way up and control is a quantum leap better. I relubed the front poly bushings at the same time as they didn't get the right kind of love the first time they were installed. Plenty of grease in all the right spots this time. After alignment two things were very noticeable - straight line braking is now very straight line. No feeling at all of any wander whatsoever. Second is small adjustments in the steering wheel are immediately met with small responses, exactly the way one would hope. The one downside is I now have a camber imbalance with almost perfect caster. This is also not the end of the changes, but that's a different post. Suffice it to say, if you are tracking your car, you'll love the solid bearings.
Set toe out to -0.04 degrees both sides. I've been running this same setting with the Figs 90 durometer polyurethane bushings for quite some time with great success. The difference with the solid bushings can't be understated - NVH is way up and control is a quantum leap better. I relubed the front poly bushings at the same time as they didn't get the right kind of love the first time they were installed. Plenty of grease in all the right spots this time. After alignment two things were very noticeable - straight line braking is now very straight line. No feeling at all of any wander whatsoever. Second is small adjustments in the steering wheel are immediately met with small responses, exactly the way one would hope. The one downside is I now have a camber imbalance with almost perfect caster. This is also not the end of the changes, but that's a different post. Suffice it to say, if you are tracking your car, you'll love the solid bearings.
I'm still battling my high speed instability/wandering problem with zero front toe. Earlier in this thread you mentioned a 1/4 turn on the rod ends could get me to about 1/16" total toe out. Is this lengthening or shortening the rods?
#300
Tech Info Resource
Thread Starter
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Congrats on the upgrade. I saw these and was intrigued but I can't stand NVH these days. Can certainly appreciate what they can do on the track however. I still may entertain the Figs 80 durometer bushings one day.
I'm still battling my high speed instability/wandering problem with zero front toe. Earlier in this thread you mentioned a 1/4 turn on the rod ends could get me to about 1/16" total toe out. Is this lengthening or shortening the rods?
I'm still battling my high speed instability/wandering problem with zero front toe. Earlier in this thread you mentioned a 1/4 turn on the rod ends could get me to about 1/16" total toe out. Is this lengthening or shortening the rods?
A quarter turn is 0.0297" in which ever direction you turn. If you adjusted both sides in the same direction (in or out), you'd have a total toe change of 0.0594". Given rubber bushings, I'd call that 0.060" or so, or pretty close to 1/16" change.
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