GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Wires don't do crap. I only upgraded mine because I had leftover 1/0 gauge wires from my audio system and it would be a waste to throw them way. Plus I put on expandable sleeves so it looks pretty

Was I expecting a difference? No. Should you? No. If you are, then you will be very disappointed. This is one of those feel-good mods, but hey if you have the money to burn, go for it.

If you need to upgrade wires in order to fix problems from the factory such as idling issue, then I question the manufacturer's ability to engineer their cars.


And Honda is a weird one. Some of their grounds wires are braided, while other cars get normal strands.

JDKane527

iTrader: (10)

I feel like a grounding kit is a bandaid mod for a bad wiring from manufacturer. This like a lot of other mods for the 2IS and IS-F won't squeeze much more power out of the engine. Other cars have seen gains over stock because of issues and whatnot. Unnecessary mod for "feel good" and to feel like you gained some power via your butt dyno, and if you're expecting to feel a difference, chances are you will due to placebo.

I wonder if car manufacturers purposely skimp on making the car as efficient as possible so there can be an aftermarket following for that model and grab the tuner crowd.

mrohno

iTrader: (1)

I've never made claims that I "felt" power gains or that I was looking for power gains from ground wires....I merely stated that many"experts" and tuning mags have reported some slight gains. All I've reported is that after I installed my kit on my old G35 I witnessed undeniable improvements in both feel and shift speed of the auto trans especially in manual mode and noticeable improvements of engine note during both idle and driving. Now could the first Gen G need some improvements? Maybe....I don't know and like I've said I'm no engineer.....but many people that owned G35s and pro engineers on the g35driver forum have reported noticeable improvements and in-depth explanations and analysis. I've never done this mod on any of the other cars I've owned since so I don't know if this mod would make much of a difference on the F, that's why I asked if anyone has done it and if not if someone wants to develop one and figure out the connecting points I would be willing to put a few bucks of my hard earned and be the lab mouse and try it. Do people on this forum dismiss people for making inquiries that they dont agree with? Do we slam people for installing intake tubes that for 300 bucks show arguable small gains where some dynos even show HP loss?! After all they just make much more noise and tingle our butt dynos, therefore i guess anyone who has insalled an intake system is just dreaming. Are we supposed to assume that lexus didn't do their homework and wasted all those millions of research dollars and developed a bad performing intake system? By some of the responses to this post it would seem that we should discourage discussion and not explore any mods as they are all worthless because gains are small and lexus engineers have developed perfection and to mod anything would be futile. I stopped contributing and eventually following the G35 forums for this same reason as the war of whose mods are better, name calling and outright lack of respect people started showing....its a shame because there were lots of smart and great guys on that community that were willing to help and educate through discussion rather than flames. I came to CL IS-F forums hoping that things might be different. I am pretty sure they will be, right? Have great weekend guys!

Jay

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

It works for the Infiniti because its a band-aid for their engineering. People are dismissing it because it generally does not work for Toyota vehicles. They've ran a dyno test on a Honda Civic Del Sol and some kits showed improvements. But then again, we're talking about Honda. The electrical systems are not beefy, just 'good enough.' On a Mazda Miata that was tested, almost every kit put on the car either lost power, or had no gains at all.

Like I said, I've installed my own 'grounding kit' on my car and plenty others with no improvements. Even if I tried to form a placebo effect, I just could not feel it with my butt dyno. Any dyno runs on the IS-F to disprove this theory are more than welcome.

mrohno

iTrader: (1)

That's a good explanation...this is my first Toyota lexus product so I don't know much of what to expect. I guess to me the engine seemed a touch rough (a touch!) At idle so that's why I was thinking grounding kit remembering the results on my Infiniti. Thanks . I still think I might wanna try it.

Jay

LexFather

I was about to say that. Nissan/INfiniti was never known for refinement even with improved products. It probably improved b/c they cut costs everywhere including wiring and electrical systems.

My thoughts are the IS-F is a very heavily tested car and I won't say to not get the wires if it makes you feel good but its like adding those $200 Monster Cables to your T.V that have no real affect.

mrohno your thread brought up some good questions and points and not everyone is going to agree. Thanks for starting the thread.

Juanca

iTrader: (5)

First of all welcome to the forum mrohno. Nobody is dismissing your question, all the opposite, the experts gave you a good answer. The electrical system in the IS-F is not the same as in the G35, it's better. The Toyota/Lexus engineers did their homework in most areas. Take for example the intake (something you just mentioned): go to Figs' post where he compared most of the intakes available for our F, dyoned them all with his own money, and posted the results. The stock intake provided the best/highest HP output. JoeZ intake wasn't part of the test, but it's been tested already and the HP was minimal (around 5 HP), but you get a louder engine noise (probably the reason he got improvements, I'm sure Lexus was trying to keep the engine noise down).
Other part that got improved is the exhaust, and again I'm sure this is due to Lexus trying to quiet the car down.
Finally, please name a big V8 with 400+ HP as ours that doesn't feel rough at idle. Ours is actually as smooth as silk.

CDNROCKIES

+1

I think when you're comparing this engine to the OP's V6 Infiniti's it's going to of course be louder and feel a touch "rougher".

mrohno

iTrader: (1)

I did say a TOUCH! haha

And this post was good and kinda backs what i was saying....because intakes are expensive and show little gains should we then just tell anyone who gets one that they just made the car louder and wasted their money? nah...but anyways, i flippin love the car and now that i've driven like a robbed a bank for the past few weeks, i gotta try to get my mpg to somewhere normal! filling up every 3 days is not gonna make wifey too happy! Thanks to everyone for their inpute and again would be willing to test a set out.

jay

ISFer

iTrader: (2)

Told you so Jay....
I'm done talking about it here. If you want my views and further info you can pm me, and I'd really appreciate what you find out too.

You'd expect that kind of an attitude on a nice friendly forum. Perhaps that's too much to ask here.

flossn, I've felt the way you do for some time now but apparantly not enough do.... so it just continues.......

Pity. I'm used to a more friendly, open minded forum where there's some support and where the naysayers butt out.

C.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Guys just to be clear... we encourage both positive and negative counterpoints as long as the discussion is civil and constructive. Club Lexus isn't about just having threads full of cheering and positive comments or threads only of bashing and naysayers.

We feel that this approach is far more valuable to our members to make informed decisions about their modifications, fixes, etc.

If you want to discuss this further, please PM me and lets get this thread back on topic about the grounding kits. I've removed several off-topic posts.

Lil4X

Just a point of logic here. IF these "grounding kits", or any other so-called "performance mod", like ignition intensifiers, gas magnets, Fish carburetors, or Tornado fuel savers, offered anywhere near the dramatic improvement their manufacturers claim, the automakers would be crawling all over each other to install them in every car they build? There's just something fishy about the claims made for these devices and the dozens of fuel and oil additives that have been foisted on the motoring public for nearly 100 years.

IF these over-the-counter performance mods had any genuine effect on performance, it is likely there was something wrong with the stock parts in the first place. That's certainly possible. Of course the modification seems to produce improved performance - the butt dyno is calibrated by the wallet. If you spent the money, of course it works better!

Splat

iTrader: (3)

Lobu,

I know you like icode and you know they research there info and back it up with R&D so what would you say about this?

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...thUt6oJanbMg0A

mrohno

iTrader: (1)

Wow, Old post...forgot I even started it! Besides the fact that I sounded WAY too emotional in my posts...this is interesting! Curious to know more, just to know. thanks Splat.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

They're also selling braided stainless brake lines. I've put them on cars and bikes since I built my own set in 1980. They made zero difference in performance (and actually reduced reliability because I had to inspect them far more frequently). They sure look spiffy, and there was a time when I thought they were mandatory for racing, but with the advent of kevlar braided lines on the 1991 Kawasaki ZX7-R, the need for braided stainless disappeared. A lot like the need for holes in rotors disappeared with better pad materials in the '70s. Unfortunately, once something is in fashion, it's very hard to make substantive change unless it's fashionable to change.

Ground wires impress your friends when you raise the hood. A lot like shock tower bars on our cars. If we had struts, I'd say tower bars are mandatory for a decently stiff front end, but we don't. Another case of what's good in one application must be good for all (but really isn't.)

Yep, iCode does some neat stuff. But they're also in business to make money. For whatever reason people still think if it's good for a Honda, it must be good for a Toyota, so people buy grounding kits. Maybe they saw it in a magazine (usually one of the worst possible sources of tech information) or they had some guy show they lowered the resistance by 0.5 milliohms which (when looking through the wrong end of the telescope) means a 1000% improvement (but only if you don't understand how to measure real improvements in electrical systems.)

I'd bet a big pile of money you can't make any even slightly noticeable difference by replacing the ground wires. Bigger != better in all cases, and especially with a vehicle where weight is always a big concern, bigger just means heavier.