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What does dirty mean? The whole point of this thread is to underscore a simple fact - it is impossible to determine the quality of your oil without an analysis. Color is no indication of viscosity, lubricity, or total base number. The only reliable way to determine these things is through testing the used oil with a company like Blackstone.
If I changed my oil based on appearance, I would be throwing away a lot of still very useful oil. Because the F's engine holds nearly 10 quarts, it makes solid economic sense to test your oil and determine what the right OCI is for your climate and driving patterns.
I get that's the point you were trying to make but another poster said something about the color of the oil. I get you've provided a lot of daya to back your claim. I guess I've always been programmed to change at 5k. Hell, it used to be 3k.
It's also hard for me to read through the whole thread and draw an absolute conclusion. I get it though and in the other thread I guess it was you who convinced me to go with the YZZA4. Now I guess I'll go to 10k between changes.
I'll check levels because some on here that are purchasing the catch can oil separator are acting like they're losing a decent amount of oil. I can't remember your position on that.
Thanks very much for all the information you're provided on the upkeep of our prized cars. I really do appreciate it.
I am on the fence about catch cans. I have not had any significant oil losses even running 12k miles between changes, so I am not fully convinced what the catch can contains is only oil. If it truly were oil condensed from oil vapor, datalogging the engine's operation would show the knock sensors working hard to keep the engine safe. No one has shown me this data, so I am still skeptical. If I were consistently losing a quart between changes, I'd be concerned. I am not. I have only added oil between changes one time in the engine's history, and it is documented on my report.
The wife's Scion tC now burns through a quart of oil about every thousand miles. It did not do this until very recently - it has over 220k miles on it and runs 10k OCI with Mobil 1 5w-20 and Toyota filters. Even this engine does not show any signs of detonation or ignition retard in service, but I know for a fact it burns oil pretty quickly and did not previously.
Last, but not least, Toyota (or Yamaha) engineers installed a pretty elaborate oil vapor separation device from the factory with drains to return the oil to the engine. Obviously they were concerned enough about this to spend engineering time and effort to ensure oil control was not an issue. What does make it past this device is expected to be burned in the cylinders, and again, it is very possibly a mixture of fluids not heavy enough to be caught by the factory oil separator. One of the things you want is to burn off the organic acids that would otherwise combine with the water vapor inside the engine and sit on top of your oil. The whole reason TBN (total base number) testing exists is because the oil manufacturers know these acids break down their carefully engineered product. So oil straight from the bottle is alkaline to counter the acids the engine produces in the combustion process and protect the oil. When the base is used up (TBN less than 1.0), the oil's demise is rapid. The time this takes is entirely dependent on ring fit/wear because the byproducts of combustion leak past the rings into the crankcase. The better the ring fit, the less the worry about all of these oil service life issues.
So, it's very possible my particular engine has a better ring fit from the factory than the typical 2UR-GSE, and I'm just lucky that I don't have issues with oil in the intake. Or I could be wrong. Or something else. That's why I am totally on the fence.
It's not incorrect, but at the same time, I've seen a UOA here on CL from an engine carrying the same oil over three years and Blackstone said the oil was still all good. If the car is garage kept and not exposed to extreme temperatures and humidity, you probably don't need to do it annually. However, if your trips are short duration (less than 30 minutes continuous operating time), then you are wise to use a shorter interval because the oil never gets hot enough to boil off the contaminants. It always comes down to figuring out what works for your climate, your driving, and your engine. Some people wince at a $200 oil change at the dealer, others just shrug it off and say it's the price of having something nice.
I am data driven, so I always want to know why - and the larger the engine, the larger the associated maintenance costs. So I am the guy who will question what the manufacturer recommends and do my own testing to make sure I am getting the best balance between cost and performance. I always know speed costs money, but it doesn't always have to cost big money. And the old adage - cheap, fast, reliable; pick two also applies, but I'm the guy who says why can't I have all three?
I guess I'm also on the fence as well. The only reason I'd consider the catch can is because my wife one time saw smoke from behind after I'd got on it. It sounded like a logical solution to a problem. However, after hearing what you've explained about the lengths the Toyota/Yamaha engineers went through to alleviate this problem I think I'll wait for more data from here and my observations.
Back the the subject. I think I'll lean towards 10k changes while swapping out filters and topping off at 5k. I'll also continue to follow this thread. I do go 15000 on my wife's Rogue with the mobile 15k oil and filter. So this data makes me feel safer about that.
I had a C-class that the first recommended change wasn't until 15k. Im guessing Mercedes engineers' research and findings are probably similar to yours.
I wonder why Toyota has a different recommendation.
Toyota engineers are extremely conservative, and there are use cases where a 5k OCI is warranted - frequent trips in cold climates under 5 miles will hammer the snot out of your oil's service life. Since they are not on the hook for maintenance costs and they are on the hook for warranty repairs/replacements, they are always going to aim for worst case to minimize their costs.
BTW, that SAE paper was published:1987-11-01. It's just a bit outdated.
It must have some merit - I've seen it referenced in Amsoil publications. If there is something similar that you know of, I'd be interested to check it out.
I'm aiming to perform a Blackstone UOA in May during my semi-annual change. Does this test also identify potential oil filter deficiencies?
It's not incorrect, but at the same time, I've seen a UOA here on CL from an engine carrying the same oil over three years and Blackstone said the oil was still all good. If the car is garage kept and not exposed to extreme temperatures and humidity, you probably don't need to do it annually. However, if your trips are short duration (less than 30 minutes continuous operating time), then you are wise to use a shorter interval because the oil never gets hot enough to boil off the contaminants. It always comes down to figuring out what works for your climate, your driving, and your engine. Some people wince at a $200 oil change at the dealer, others just shrug it off and say it's the price of having something nice.
I am data driven, so I always want to know why - and the larger the engine, the larger the associated maintenance costs. So I am the guy who will question what the manufacturer recommends and do my own testing to make sure I am getting the best balance between cost and performance. I always know speed costs money, but it doesn't always have to cost big money. And the old adage - cheap, fast, reliable; pick two also applies, but I'm the guy who says why can't I have all three?
Thanks. I'm not in a cold climate and have barely any humidity, but my drives are usually short. I'll stick with the year. $110/yr is an easier pill to swallow than most have with multiple oil changes.
Toyota engineers are extremely conservative, and there are use cases where a 5k OCI is warranted - frequent trips in cold climates under 5 miles will hammer the snot out of your oil's service life.
That will be me starting in Feb...work is moving locations...25 mile drive one way to 5 mile drive....the car won't even warm up and the speed limits on the road are all 35 MPH...
After reading all this I made plans to test my oil and realized that I am still under warranty. So I have to do every 5k not to void warranty I guess, but 10-14k sounds so good on Mobile 1 or Amsoil. Whats funny is that in the warranty section it states that the owner can perform their own maintenance, but always wanted to know if anything ever happen if they would want proof (records, receipts) of any work performed....
If I had any issues at all I would have just produced my UOAs and let their engineers try to argue with data. Remember, this is the same company that says the transmission is a "lifetime" fill from the factory.
I am data driven, so I always want to know why - and the larger the engine, the larger the associated maintenance costs. So I am the guy who will question what the manufacturer recommends and do my own testing to make sure I am getting the best balance between cost and performance.
Anyone with a catch can want to send the contents to Blackstone? Seems like a cheap, reasonable solution.
Hey guys. Just got my analysis. Not the best first sample (only 1700 kms on oil) since I haven't been driving the car much. I'll be keeping an eye on the sodium and coolant levels for the next little bit though!
After reading all this I made plans to test my oil and realized that I am still under warranty. So I have to do every 5k not to void warranty I guess, but 10-14k sounds so good on Mobile 1 or Amsoil. Whats funny is that in the warranty section it states that the owner can perform their own maintenance, but always wanted to know if anything ever happen if they would want proof (records, receipts) of any work performed....
I know this is an older post but... If you sign up on MyLexus (with the app or online) you can insert your DIY maintenance records if you'd like.
12-17-15, 07:46 AM
So I have to do every 5k not to void warranty I guess, but 10-14k sounds so good on Mobile 1 or Amsoil. Whats funny is that in the warranty section it states that the owner can perform their own maintenance, but always wanted to know if anything ever happen if they would want proof (records, receipts) of any work performed....
