Change front bearings, ABC, TRAC on now
01-28-17, 01:43 PM
#1
Driver
Thread Starter
Change front bearings, ABC, TRAC on now
2006 IS350 RWD
changed out my front wheel bearings the other day. Did the right side, pulled the car out to turn it around, had no issues. Then did the left side, and now have some issues.
ABS light on
car with squiggly lines(TRAC) light on
AFS off, light flashing
CHECK VSC, message being displayed in info centre
Now, I don't have a press in the garage. I was able to use the hub bolts to suck the bearing/hub in on the right side. But for the left side I had to tap it in with a hammer a bit to start the bolts and suck it in. So I feel rather likely that I damaged the internal sensor by tapping on the housing. However, I don't want to order another new bearing if I don't need to. So I'd like to trouble shoot this prior to ordering parts.
From reading I've done it sounds like the ABS wiring is pretty pitiful in these cars. And any disturbance can break the wires. So that's a possibility that needs to be checked.
The ABS sensor being damaged is another possibility that needs to be checked.
Does anyone know off hand the resistances I should see when putting a meter across the sensor terminals, and the wiring terminals?
Its unfortunate that others with problems here have done a rather poor job communicating their issue and resolutions. This is a RWD car. So it doesn't have a separate ABS sensor. It is built into the hub/bearing. And it is a front sensor issue I am fairly certain I have. Any other posts I have read were fairly vague what car it was, type of sensor it had, whether it was front or rear, etc. So I want to ensure I capture everything here. Let me know if you think I have missed including any relevant info.
Any my help is appreciated. I am going to get on TIS tonight and start going through things. But I figured it couldn't hurt to ask here in case someone has experienced the same issue. As well if I solve this on my own I will update this post to prevent someone else the headache in the future.
changed out my front wheel bearings the other day. Did the right side, pulled the car out to turn it around, had no issues. Then did the left side, and now have some issues.
ABS light on
car with squiggly lines(TRAC) light on
AFS off, light flashing
CHECK VSC, message being displayed in info centre
Now, I don't have a press in the garage. I was able to use the hub bolts to suck the bearing/hub in on the right side. But for the left side I had to tap it in with a hammer a bit to start the bolts and suck it in. So I feel rather likely that I damaged the internal sensor by tapping on the housing. However, I don't want to order another new bearing if I don't need to. So I'd like to trouble shoot this prior to ordering parts.
From reading I've done it sounds like the ABS wiring is pretty pitiful in these cars. And any disturbance can break the wires. So that's a possibility that needs to be checked.
The ABS sensor being damaged is another possibility that needs to be checked.
Does anyone know off hand the resistances I should see when putting a meter across the sensor terminals, and the wiring terminals?
Its unfortunate that others with problems here have done a rather poor job communicating their issue and resolutions. This is a RWD car. So it doesn't have a separate ABS sensor. It is built into the hub/bearing. And it is a front sensor issue I am fairly certain I have. Any other posts I have read were fairly vague what car it was, type of sensor it had, whether it was front or rear, etc. So I want to ensure I capture everything here. Let me know if you think I have missed including any relevant info.
Any my help is appreciated. I am going to get on TIS tonight and start going through things. But I figured it couldn't hurt to ask here in case someone has experienced the same issue. As well if I solve this on my own I will update this post to prevent someone else the headache in the future.
Last edited by Viktimize; 01-28-17 at 02:02 PM.
01-28-17, 03:34 PM
#3
Check the codes, but I agree with Gville, check that the connector is seated correctly, and that nothing is broken in the connector. If the connector is good, I'd bet money that it's an issue with the sensor in the new bearing you installed. (Whether it was caused by your tapping or not).
Jeff
Jeff
01-28-17, 03:55 PM
#4
Driver
Thread Starter
The wiring unfortunately cannot be inspected, as it is shielded.
Just pulled the car up on the ramps. Going to pull basic OBD2 codes first and see if anything is there first. Then I'll proceed with checking resistances, I went ahead and got them off TIS already.
Just pulled the car up on the ramps. Going to pull basic OBD2 codes first and see if anything is there first. Then I'll proceed with checking resistances, I went ahead and got them off TIS already.
01-28-17, 04:17 PM
#5
Driver
Thread Starter
Codes are
C0200- ABS RF Wheel Speed Sensor Malfucntion
C1223- ABS Current Malfunction in Control System
C1241- Low Battery Positive Voltage
So the fact it is the right front throwing a code is weird to begin with, but helps narrow things down. This is why you troubleshoot first and not just make assumptions and throw parts at things. Otherwise I'd be waiting on a new hub that was a waste of money and not going to fix my issue.
The C1223 code makes sense, because if there is an open circuit or a high resistance somewhere, then of course there will be an incorrect current measured by the system.
C1241 when looked into further, is actually triggered by the voltage to the ABS actuator unit being too low for detection. Far as I could tell from reading anyway. Battery voltage is good, that's already been checked.
At this point codes have been cleared. I am going to ensure the connectors to the sensors are fully engaged and snug, even though I know they already are. Then test drive the car to see if the issue repeats itself. According to TIS, if there is an open in the circuit the C0200 will be triggered after 0.5 seconds. So basically as soon as I start the car.
Started the car, it was fine. Troubleshoot chart says to now drive the car at 20km/h for at least 60 seconds. I did that and some codes were triggered again within about 10-20 seconds. Pulled over and checked codes. C0200 and C1223 again. On the bright side, the C1241 did not return. I drove the car another few blocks just make sure nothing else triggered as well. Remained just the 2 codes triggered.
From there the trouble guide recommends just replacing the wheel speed sensor(in this case the whole damn bearing/hub). However, I don't have an intelligent tester that the dealer would have. And that is the first step in this whole process is to use it to check for intermittent faults in the sensors. So I am going to go ahead and do the resistance checks on the sensor and wiring just to be certain, and to pass on some information to the group.
Pin to pin on the harness side, reads 0.1ohm. Same for pin to pin on the sensor side. These aren't listed in the service guide for some reason? But they would be the first things that should be checked when troubleshooting wiring or sensor. A high resistance or open would obviously indicate problems.
Harness to ground from either pin reads roughly 10Mohms as it should based on the service guide.
Harness pin to sensor pin reads open. It should read under 10ohm as per the service guide. But the harness isn't plugged in to the sensor, so I have no idea why the service guide assumes there would ever be resistance there? It's an open circuit if it's not plugged in.
In any sense, I am following the recommendation of the service manual and just ordering another brand new wheel bearing/hub/sensor. I'll report back in a week or 2 when the part arrives and the job is done.
C0200- ABS RF Wheel Speed Sensor Malfucntion
C1223- ABS Current Malfunction in Control System
C1241- Low Battery Positive Voltage
So the fact it is the right front throwing a code is weird to begin with, but helps narrow things down. This is why you troubleshoot first and not just make assumptions and throw parts at things. Otherwise I'd be waiting on a new hub that was a waste of money and not going to fix my issue.
The C1223 code makes sense, because if there is an open circuit or a high resistance somewhere, then of course there will be an incorrect current measured by the system.
C1241 when looked into further, is actually triggered by the voltage to the ABS actuator unit being too low for detection. Far as I could tell from reading anyway. Battery voltage is good, that's already been checked.
At this point codes have been cleared. I am going to ensure the connectors to the sensors are fully engaged and snug, even though I know they already are. Then test drive the car to see if the issue repeats itself. According to TIS, if there is an open in the circuit the C0200 will be triggered after 0.5 seconds. So basically as soon as I start the car.
Started the car, it was fine. Troubleshoot chart says to now drive the car at 20km/h for at least 60 seconds. I did that and some codes were triggered again within about 10-20 seconds. Pulled over and checked codes. C0200 and C1223 again. On the bright side, the C1241 did not return. I drove the car another few blocks just make sure nothing else triggered as well. Remained just the 2 codes triggered.
From there the trouble guide recommends just replacing the wheel speed sensor(in this case the whole damn bearing/hub). However, I don't have an intelligent tester that the dealer would have. And that is the first step in this whole process is to use it to check for intermittent faults in the sensors. So I am going to go ahead and do the resistance checks on the sensor and wiring just to be certain, and to pass on some information to the group.
Pin to pin on the harness side, reads 0.1ohm. Same for pin to pin on the sensor side. These aren't listed in the service guide for some reason? But they would be the first things that should be checked when troubleshooting wiring or sensor. A high resistance or open would obviously indicate problems.
Harness to ground from either pin reads roughly 10Mohms as it should based on the service guide.
Harness pin to sensor pin reads open. It should read under 10ohm as per the service guide. But the harness isn't plugged in to the sensor, so I have no idea why the service guide assumes there would ever be resistance there? It's an open circuit if it's not plugged in.
In any sense, I am following the recommendation of the service manual and just ordering another brand new wheel bearing/hub/sensor. I'll report back in a week or 2 when the part arrives and the job is done.
Last edited by Viktimize; 01-28-17 at 05:40 PM.
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01-31-17, 10:16 AM
#8
Driver
Thread Starter
01-31-17, 10:46 AM
#10
Driver
Thread Starter
Yeah there's no guarantees when diagnosing from a noise, just that it's something rotating in this case. I have had same symptom exactly on both my 2006 and my 2014. Both were wheel bearings.
02-07-17, 07:15 PM
#11
Driver
Thread Starter
New bearing finally came in. Replaced another right hand side bearing, started the car and cleared the codes. Instantly got the same codes all over again. I was fairly annoyed at this point.
I went to Lexus and had the tech hook up Techstream to see what was going on. This is where having that VIS cable could come in handy and save you a bundle.
Techstream showed the right hand side as spinning backwards. Rockauto sells the Timken front wheel bearings as one part number and says it fits either Left or Right. Unfortunately this is incorrect. These bearings/hub/sensor combos are designed directionally. Rockauto sent me two left hand wheel bearings.
To avoid spending another 250$ on yet another bearing, I asked the tech if he could just use some jumper wire to connect the sensor opposite of how the connector was set up. Tried it and that didn't work either. The tech did some digging and found that there is actually 2 tone rings within the hub. One gives a reading for the computer, and the other is just a redundant back up per se. So with the sensor wired up opposite, the one ring was sending the correct direction signal to the computer, and the redudndant was still showing it going backwards. The whole traction computer just shut down.
Lexus has the correct bearing/hub on order. It will be here Friday. I won't have an update to confirm that fixed the issue because I walked over and bought a new 2016 IS300 AWD F-sport 3. They took my car for a pretty reasonable trade in. However the tech was more than confident the correct hub would fix everything right up.
Now ow I have to get my old hub back from Lexus and try to get a refund from Rockauto.
I went to Lexus and had the tech hook up Techstream to see what was going on. This is where having that VIS cable could come in handy and save you a bundle.
Techstream showed the right hand side as spinning backwards. Rockauto sells the Timken front wheel bearings as one part number and says it fits either Left or Right. Unfortunately this is incorrect. These bearings/hub/sensor combos are designed directionally. Rockauto sent me two left hand wheel bearings.
To avoid spending another 250$ on yet another bearing, I asked the tech if he could just use some jumper wire to connect the sensor opposite of how the connector was set up. Tried it and that didn't work either. The tech did some digging and found that there is actually 2 tone rings within the hub. One gives a reading for the computer, and the other is just a redundant back up per se. So with the sensor wired up opposite, the one ring was sending the correct direction signal to the computer, and the redudndant was still showing it going backwards. The whole traction computer just shut down.
Lexus has the correct bearing/hub on order. It will be here Friday. I won't have an update to confirm that fixed the issue because I walked over and bought a new 2016 IS300 AWD F-sport 3. They took my car for a pretty reasonable trade in. However the tech was more than confident the correct hub would fix everything right up.
Now ow I have to get my old hub back from Lexus and try to get a refund from Rockauto.
02-07-17, 07:31 PM
#12
Rockauto actually sells both sides, however their listing for Timken seems to be very wrong for the Front Left. They list a Front Right and one that says it fits both sides. HA590137 is the RH and HA590138 is the LH for the RWD.
At least you figured it out now. The output from the sensor is very different when it is spinning forward vs. backward. Switching the wires wouldn't help at all unfortunately.
Jeff
At least you figured it out now. The output from the sensor is very different when it is spinning forward vs. backward. Switching the wires wouldn't help at all unfortunately.
Jeff
02-07-17, 07:47 PM
#13
Driver
Thread Starter
Rockauto actually sells both sides, however their listing for Timken seems to be very wrong for the Front Left. They list a Front Right and one that says it fits both sides. HA590137 is the RH and HA590138 is the LH for the RWD.
At least you figured it out now. The output from the sensor is very different when it is spinning forward vs. backward. Switching the wires wouldn't help at all unfortunately.
Jeff
At least you figured it out now. The output from the sensor is very different when it is spinning forward vs. backward. Switching the wires wouldn't help at all unfortunately.
Jeff
The sensor shouldnt make make a difference whether its forward or backward. It's a simple tone ring with north and south poles on it that sends a pulse back to the computer. The only difference between forward or backward is which wire the pulse goes back on. So in theory reversing the wires should work. It's the redundant second tone ring that makes that not possible. Because then the computer is seeing the 2 rings spin opposite directions which is impossible. So it just makes the computer freak out and shut down.
02-07-17, 10:34 PM
#14
The sensor shouldnt make make a difference whether its forward or backward. It's a simple tone ring with north and south poles on it that sends a pulse back to the computer. The only difference between forward or backward is which wire the pulse goes back on. So in theory reversing the wires should work. It's the redundant second tone ring that makes that not possible. Because then the computer is seeing the 2 rings spin opposite directions which is impossible. So it just makes the computer freak out and shut down.
To detect the rotation direction, the output waves are used to determine the relationship of the pulses that are generated by 2 MREs. Upon receiving this signal, the speed sensor's integrated circuit outputs a forward or backward waveform to the ECU on the signal line.
This is what the waveform to the ECU looks like depending on whether it is forward or reverse:
If you switch the wires on the sensor, it most likely will just get no signal at all, forward or reverse, as the IC would be non functional with reversed polarity. One of the pins (pin 2) on the sensor connector is +12V input coming from the skid control ECU, the other (pin 1) is the signal output from the sensor back to the skid control ECU.
Jeff
Last edited by Jeff Lange; 02-07-17 at 10:38 PM.
02-08-17, 01:36 PM
#15
Driver
Thread Starter
It's actually not quite that simple. The speed sensor detects wheel speed and sends the appropriate signals to the skid control ECU. This speed sensor contains an integrated circuit, which consists of 2 MREs (Magnetic Resistance Element). The single speed sensor rotor, which consists of 48 sets of N and S poles that are arranged in a circle, is integrated with the inner race of the hub bearing.
To detect the rotation direction, the output waves are used to determine the relationship of the pulses that are generated by 2 MREs. Upon receiving this signal, the speed sensor's integrated circuit outputs a forward or backward waveform to the ECU on the signal line.
This is what the waveform to the ECU looks like depending on whether it is forward or reverse:
If you switch the wires on the sensor, it most likely will just get no signal at all, forward or reverse, as the IC would be non functional with reversed polarity. One of the pins (pin 2) on the sensor connector is +12V input coming from the skid control ECU, the other (pin 1) is the signal output from the sensor back to the skid control ECU.
Jeff
To detect the rotation direction, the output waves are used to determine the relationship of the pulses that are generated by 2 MREs. Upon receiving this signal, the speed sensor's integrated circuit outputs a forward or backward waveform to the ECU on the signal line.
This is what the waveform to the ECU looks like depending on whether it is forward or reverse:
If you switch the wires on the sensor, it most likely will just get no signal at all, forward or reverse, as the IC would be non functional with reversed polarity. One of the pins (pin 2) on the sensor connector is +12V input coming from the skid control ECU, the other (pin 1) is the signal output from the sensor back to the skid control ECU.
Jeff
Sounded like you were trying to change the laws of physics with your description. lol. The drawing makes everything make sense. Good info.
Anyway, I hope this thread and the information in it come in handy for somebody one day. I'm on to bigger and better things. Now time to order my tune from RRacing!!