Did I get scammed by the dealer ??
08-14-12, 09:45 AM
#17
That dealership was pretty shady... they took advantage of the situation.
I would go back to the dealership and talk to the service manager to see what the justification for replacing the caliper. You don't replace a caliper because there's squeeling noise. It's pretty much good for the life of the car unless it is seized or other hardware issue.
It is sounds like BS to you, you can always call Lexus Corporate and tell them what happened. At least, this gives them a heads up on what the dealership was doing.
I would go back to the dealership and talk to the service manager to see what the justification for replacing the caliper. You don't replace a caliper because there's squeeling noise. It's pretty much good for the life of the car unless it is seized or other hardware issue.
It is sounds like BS to you, you can always call Lexus Corporate and tell them what happened. At least, this gives them a heads up on what the dealership was doing.
08-14-12, 11:39 AM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
In most cases, rotors don't need to be replaced with every brake job, they need to be measured and replaced only if they are thinner than what the specs call for. Dealers often "recommend" to replace rotors without even measuring them. That is a scam.
08-14-12, 12:08 PM
#19
Similar thing actually happened to me however it was within the first year of purchasing the car. My brake system was constantly squeaking no matter what pressure i put on the brake. Afterwards, I brought it to my dealership and they said they had to replace the entire brake system and quoted it would cost $1200 (keep in mind, i'm in Canada).. Lucky me it was under warranty and they took care of the entire thing free of charge.
08-14-12, 04:54 PM
#21
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay well am I happy I have a new set of everything and I didn't have to pay a dime out of MY own pocket? Yes I am haha I think anyone would be. But I mean it was my dad and I feel like after buying a few cars from this dealership and having had Toyotas in our family for decades that this was a *****ty move by the dealer. The service adviser just said that everything was worn out and time to be replaced. It also sucks because one of the sales managers is a long-time family friend.
We're planning on buying another car from them soon but I feel like we should get the vehicle elsewhere so that this dealership doesn't get any of our money.
I had to deal with this same thing from Honda about my stock rear sub rattling (I also have an 08 accord coupe v6). They played clueless on any type of part or fix they could have done for me even after I showed them the TSIB and ended up just fixing stuff myself. Also Honda had a recall on the rear brakes on my Accord but I wasn't informed of it and by the time I found out the warranty had expired. The rear brake pads had to be replaced every 5k miles but the dealership didn't tell me of a recall and when I showed them about it later they played dumb once again.
Thanks everyone for commenting I feel very flattered that you guys took the time to read my little post because I've seen all of your ISx50's and they are absolutely amazing. I feel like my little issue with my nearly stock IS250 is so unimportant xD.
We're planning on buying another car from them soon but I feel like we should get the vehicle elsewhere so that this dealership doesn't get any of our money.
I had to deal with this same thing from Honda about my stock rear sub rattling (I also have an 08 accord coupe v6). They played clueless on any type of part or fix they could have done for me even after I showed them the TSIB and ended up just fixing stuff myself. Also Honda had a recall on the rear brakes on my Accord but I wasn't informed of it and by the time I found out the warranty had expired. The rear brake pads had to be replaced every 5k miles but the dealership didn't tell me of a recall and when I showed them about it later they played dumb once again.
Thanks everyone for commenting I feel very flattered that you guys took the time to read my little post because I've seen all of your ISx50's and they are absolutely amazing. I feel like my little issue with my nearly stock IS250 is so unimportant xD.
Last edited by Snyperifle; 08-14-12 at 05:04 PM.
08-14-12, 05:02 PM
#22
calipers only need to be replaced should something malfunction or seize up, brakes making noise means neither. So yes, you got scammed. I wouldn't drop this matter simply because your dad payed for it. I am sure he worked hard for his $900.. I would demand they demonstrate and explain why the calipers were replaced. The rotors and pads sounds feasible seeing as you have over 50K miles but all calipers is outright a scam.
08-14-12, 05:11 PM
#23
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
calipers only need to be replaced should something malfunction or seize up, brakes making noise means neither. So yes, you got scammed. I wouldn't drop this matter simply because your dad payed for it. I am sure he worked hard for his $900.. I would demand they demonstrate and explain why the calipers were replaced. The rotors and pads sounds feasible seeing as you have over 50K miles but all calipers is outright a scam.
. I guess these are the costs people pay when they are uninformed.The only really specific information they gave to us was that the brake pads were down to 3mm, but everything else was listed as "worn out". Rotors that wasn't in a condition to be resurfaced, and $50 for a caliper that just simply was time to be replaced (I just found out they only did one). Guess they were overstocked on that particular caliper and wanted to shove it onto us.
Last edited by Snyperifle; 08-14-12 at 05:18 PM.
08-14-12, 05:51 PM
#24
Did you get scammed? That is hard for us to know. If you didn't need rotors/calipers? Yes you got scammed.
Did you need rotors or calipers? We forum folk cannot say. Normally you don't, but maybe you did. You're going to either need to get confirmation from the dealership as to why they were replaced, or trust them when they say they were no longer working properly/within specs. Even if you are not at the minimum rotor specs, if you are close (depending on how close), you will wear them to below specs before the pads wear to below specs. That is a situation a dealership will try to avoid.
It is hard/impossible for any of us to comment beyond that, and anyone take any comments that say otherwise with a grain of salt, in my opinion.
Jeff
Did you need rotors or calipers? We forum folk cannot say. Normally you don't, but maybe you did. You're going to either need to get confirmation from the dealership as to why they were replaced, or trust them when they say they were no longer working properly/within specs. Even if you are not at the minimum rotor specs, if you are close (depending on how close), you will wear them to below specs before the pads wear to below specs. That is a situation a dealership will try to avoid.
It is hard/impossible for any of us to comment beyond that, and anyone take any comments that say otherwise with a grain of salt, in my opinion.
Jeff
Last edited by Jeff Lange; 08-14-12 at 05:55 PM.
08-14-12, 06:27 PM
#25
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 310
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand what you're saying. The shock of reading the invoice after only expecting new brake pads led me to quickly to post on this forum for the experts' opinions. I've always been under the impression that rotors far outlasted pads, probably because the rotors on any of my family's cars have never been replaced so soon, even on my Accord which I drive fairly hard (and also has a greater number of miles on). I felt it strange that on the first brake pad change on the IS250 the car also needed new rotors. I also felt it was strange that a caliper needed replacement, since none of our cars have ever needed new calipers. I thought you would just replace a caliper if something was broken, and that they lasted even longer than rotors or pads. I really thought they believed we were stupid and didn't know anything about brakes so they shoved all these brake components onto us to buy, simply when the pads were just getting old.
So the car is at 57k miles, the brakes are showing signs that the pads need replacement (the squealing) and we ended up paying to get all this stuff replaced at once. It just seemed kind of fishy. On top of that, the service manager said there's no such thing as low-dust brake pads for the IS250, and that Lexus only makes one type of brake pad for my particular vehicle, basically saying that I don't know what I'm talking about.
Everything put together, I was thinking to myself "You've got to be kidding me". So MAYBE my car needed all this work done. I'm not an expert on brakes obviously so, just maybe. But saying that Lexus doesn't make low-dust brake pads for the IS250 made me think that the service manager didn't know what HE was talking about. I mean, he has to have seen the TSIB right? It's gotta be in the books somewhere. I'm confident my dealership has a lot of business (Sterling McCall Lexus) so I'm sure other people have gotten this TSIB done.
I mean, I still love Lexus, and this dealership has treated us well in the past. I really like how I paid like $25 for an oil change, but I got to go inside and enjoy breakfast (they served Panera Bread sandwiches, which I know cost like $6 each. I ate 2 and took 2 home, so my oil change came out pretty cheap.) Now that I felt like they scammed us, I was like "Great, now I see how they could afford to put out all those sandwiches for people to take for free".
Like I said, an old family friend is a sales manager here. We got a good deal on the IS250 and my mom got her RX400h for the price of an RX350. But this little incident where I felt like they were treating me dumb makes me feel like they put up a fake image.
So the car is at 57k miles, the brakes are showing signs that the pads need replacement (the squealing) and we ended up paying to get all this stuff replaced at once. It just seemed kind of fishy. On top of that, the service manager said there's no such thing as low-dust brake pads for the IS250, and that Lexus only makes one type of brake pad for my particular vehicle, basically saying that I don't know what I'm talking about.
Everything put together, I was thinking to myself "You've got to be kidding me". So MAYBE my car needed all this work done. I'm not an expert on brakes obviously so, just maybe. But saying that Lexus doesn't make low-dust brake pads for the IS250 made me think that the service manager didn't know what HE was talking about. I mean, he has to have seen the TSIB right? It's gotta be in the books somewhere. I'm confident my dealership has a lot of business (Sterling McCall Lexus) so I'm sure other people have gotten this TSIB done.
I mean, I still love Lexus, and this dealership has treated us well in the past. I really like how I paid like $25 for an oil change, but I got to go inside and enjoy breakfast (they served Panera Bread sandwiches, which I know cost like $6 each. I ate 2 and took 2 home, so my oil change came out pretty cheap.) Now that I felt like they scammed us, I was like "Great, now I see how they could afford to put out all those sandwiches for people to take for free".
Like I said, an old family friend is a sales manager here. We got a good deal on the IS250 and my mom got her RX400h for the price of an RX350. But this little incident where I felt like they were treating me dumb makes me feel like they put up a fake image.
Last edited by Snyperifle; 08-14-12 at 06:49 PM.
08-14-12, 06:42 PM
#27
Can you post a picture of the invoice and/or a breakdown of what exactly it says? Interested in labour times/rates and a list of parts replaced with pricing.
As for what you assumed, you are correct, pads generally go first, then rotors, then calipers. Replacing all of those on the first brake job is unusual but not unheard of. The high-dust pads in the IS cause significantly more rotor wear than other pads (including the low-dust IS pads). My car with the high-dust pads has significant rotor wear with only 21,000 miles, by 57,000 miles I would probably expect to need to replace them; I am not kind on braking apparently? As for calipers, I've seen seized calipers after that many miles as well, especially on the rear of IS models from eastern Canada (Ontario uses a lot of salt on their roads in the winter). As for the service manager seeing the TSIB for the brake dust issue, he may or may not remember it. He's not the one dealing with this on a regular basis. If anyone would know it would probably be the parts department first, then the service advisor/technician that has worked on/replaced these parts for customers in the past and/or the shop foreman. The service manager doesn't deal directly with these issues in many cases. Knowing that there are multiple types of brake pads available off the top of their heads for a couple years of one type of car out of how many models they deal with every day? Might not happen.
Still, I'd expect him to at least look into it for you if you mentioned that the TSIB existed. The 04007- part number they used for your brake pads were from a similar older TSIB for brake noise on early 2IS models, so clearly someone was looking into TSIB's for your car.
Jeff
As for what you assumed, you are correct, pads generally go first, then rotors, then calipers. Replacing all of those on the first brake job is unusual but not unheard of. The high-dust pads in the IS cause significantly more rotor wear than other pads (including the low-dust IS pads). My car with the high-dust pads has significant rotor wear with only 21,000 miles, by 57,000 miles I would probably expect to need to replace them; I am not kind on braking apparently? As for calipers, I've seen seized calipers after that many miles as well, especially on the rear of IS models from eastern Canada (Ontario uses a lot of salt on their roads in the winter). As for the service manager seeing the TSIB for the brake dust issue, he may or may not remember it. He's not the one dealing with this on a regular basis. If anyone would know it would probably be the parts department first, then the service advisor/technician that has worked on/replaced these parts for customers in the past and/or the shop foreman. The service manager doesn't deal directly with these issues in many cases. Knowing that there are multiple types of brake pads available off the top of their heads for a couple years of one type of car out of how many models they deal with every day? Might not happen.
Still, I'd expect him to at least look into it for you if you mentioned that the TSIB existed. The 04007- part number they used for your brake pads were from a similar older TSIB for brake noise on early 2IS models, so clearly someone was looking into TSIB's for your car.
Jeff
Last edited by Jeff Lange; 08-14-12 at 06:50 PM.
08-14-12, 07:07 PM
#30
Did you get scammed? That is hard for us to know. If you didn't need rotors/calipers? Yes you got scammed.
Did you need rotors or calipers? We forum folk cannot say. Normally you don't, but maybe you did. You're going to either need to get confirmation from the dealership as to why they were replaced, or trust them when they say they were no longer working properly/within specs. Even if you are not at the minimum rotor specs, if you are close (depending on how close), you will wear them to below specs before the pads wear to below specs. That is a situation a dealership will try to avoid.
It is hard/impossible for any of us to comment beyond that, and anyone take any comments that say otherwise with a grain of salt, in my opinion.
Jeff
Did you need rotors or calipers? We forum folk cannot say. Normally you don't, but maybe you did. You're going to either need to get confirmation from the dealership as to why they were replaced, or trust them when they say they were no longer working properly/within specs. Even if you are not at the minimum rotor specs, if you are close (depending on how close), you will wear them to below specs before the pads wear to below specs. That is a situation a dealership will try to avoid.
It is hard/impossible for any of us to comment beyond that, and anyone take any comments that say otherwise with a grain of salt, in my opinion.
Jeff
I have to agree with Jeff to an extent here. While we all can form our opinions and jump the gun with the information provided, none of us truly know what happened when his car was there.
Were they rear calipers, rotors, pads? Front?
I could hijack the thread and voice my opinions about people who throw around "stealership", but like the other Lexus Techs on this board, I am here to help...
The reason I jump to rear is because they are more common to have the calipers seize. It is a little uncommon to see the fronts seize on an IS in my area of the U.S., but I have seen it happen.