Help - Rather urgent: Brake Pad/System Issues
05-20-12, 07:04 AM
#1
Help - Rather urgent: Brake Pad/System Issues
Hey all I will try and make this quick but I'm having an issue with my brake system after a pad install. Sorry it is so long. I just want to provide as much information as I can.
What I did:
-Replace front and rear brakes with Akebono ProAct Pads (from Advance Auto Parts)
-Replaced Lexus "Fit-Kit" for rear brakes as it was missing when I bought the car and the first brake pad change was done
-Flush, bleed, and refill brake fluid
-Painted Brake Calipers and Rotor "Hats"
-Oil Change and Filter
-Tire Rotation
My ORIGINAL issues:
-The rear brakes were stubborn to take the new pads due to the Akebono thickness, used C-Clamp on caliper piston to push it all the way back.
-After job completion the driver's rear brake was smoking and smelled like it was burning.
-Car was braking itself. (couldn't tell which pads as I was the driver)
-Took a 1 minute drive around the development and the driver rear brake was smoking
-Glazed the new pads in the driver's rear side (doesn't appear to be a glazed rotor at all).
-"Appeared" as if the driver's rear piston was not disengaging nor moving.
-Brake pedal felt a bit weaker.
-At the time, all of the other pads/rotors were hot but not smoking after original test drive.
Then:
-Took out the driver's rear Akebono Pads and put very thin OEM pads back in (used pads I had just taken off the car).
-Actively, with the car running, bled the driver's rear caliper.
NEW issues:
-Brake pedal can be pushed to the floor without a heck of a lot of force. I am pushing it with intent to use enough strength to make it hit the floor though. Doesn't go down on it's own, at all, but I don't remember it being like that. Although I went from a semi-metallic pad to a ceramic and did not do the last brake job.
-Heard a clunk noise from somewhere in the car the first time I jammed the brake pedal down after the active bleed.
-Pedal still feels spongy (I'm assuming from the crappy one man Mityvek bleeder kit that I used put air into the lines)
-All rotors are still hot after a series of tests from slow stopping, to holding the brakes going down hill, to stopping hard around 5-10 MPH.
Current State of the Car:
-All sides have Akebono pads except driver's rear.
-Rotors are less then 5 months old and are Wearver rotors.
-Brake fluid is in the middle of the empty and full lines.
-After the above tests and work cannot get the Akebono's into the driver's side rear caliper with the piston all the way back. Originally it was tough but they went in.
-Seems like the outside pad is the one that is hard to put in as the side with the piston has enough room.
Tests I did once I had my step-brother drive the car:
-Ran next to the car and listened for grinding while driving - heard none
-No Smells or burning
-Hot rotors, including the driver's rear with the thin OEM pads, which was hot just not 100% equal to the rest (assuming due to the thin pads)
-Listened as I conducted another series of test, as stated above, from the outside and heard a little bit of scraping when braking but honestly just sounded like the ceramic on metal rotor sound since they are new.
-Car will NOT stop itself anymore
-Felt all the calipers as my brother pushed the brakes and released them - all of them flexed when pumping the brakes.
-To note, the driver's rear with the OEM pads I actually could see the caliper moving inward and outward because the pads were so thin.
Things I know:
-The master cylinder was on the max line once I topped it off after the pad change but is now a touch above half between the low and full lines after the active bleed. I never added more fluid after the active bleed.
-The OEM pads are still in the driver's rear side and seem to be a tad cooler then the rest of the wheels with the new pads and are functioning correctly.
-All of the calipers seem to be expanding and contracting upon brake pumping.
-It appears that the passenger rear pads are so thick they are on the rotor but I can still, with little resistance, turn the wheel of the car (in neutral and on a jack stand) so I don't think that side is dragging.
-With the OEM pads on the driver's rear I can still turn that wheel too. Unsure about the Akebonos because I can't get them seated in the housing.
-All of these tests, unless noted, lasted about 5 minutes.
-My stepbrother, who drives a 09 Hyundai Sonata, said my pedal felt just about the same as the one in his car.
My concerns:
-Why are the rotors so hot? I've never really felt them before so I don't have anything to go on as far as comparison.
-Why won't the Akebonos fit in the drivers rear side anymore?
-Is my passenger rear side dragging or just looks like it since the pads are so thick.
-Is my brake pedal just weird because of the air in the line and I am just pushing too hard so I think it's hitting the floor?
-Is there any concern about the pad fitment and wear of rotor/pad/ect ?
-Is my car safe to drive? I have a 4 hour trip on Tuesday, in the rain, up mountains to Pittsburg and safety is the goal.
-I will bleed the car again, with help from my mechanic father later today.
sorry this is still a book to read but I need help asap since I need to work on Monday and have no spare car. not to mention all the Lexus parts are special order and with it being Sunday, wont be here till Monday at best.
Thanks for all the help guys n gals. I get all of my information from searches on CL and some of the info, tips, and tricks has surprised a few mechanics I tell but it's always spot on.
What I did:
-Replace front and rear brakes with Akebono ProAct Pads (from Advance Auto Parts)
-Replaced Lexus "Fit-Kit" for rear brakes as it was missing when I bought the car and the first brake pad change was done
-Flush, bleed, and refill brake fluid
-Painted Brake Calipers and Rotor "Hats"
-Oil Change and Filter
-Tire Rotation
My ORIGINAL issues:
-The rear brakes were stubborn to take the new pads due to the Akebono thickness, used C-Clamp on caliper piston to push it all the way back.
-After job completion the driver's rear brake was smoking and smelled like it was burning.
-Car was braking itself. (couldn't tell which pads as I was the driver)
-Took a 1 minute drive around the development and the driver rear brake was smoking
-Glazed the new pads in the driver's rear side (doesn't appear to be a glazed rotor at all).
-"Appeared" as if the driver's rear piston was not disengaging nor moving.
-Brake pedal felt a bit weaker.
-At the time, all of the other pads/rotors were hot but not smoking after original test drive.
Then:
-Took out the driver's rear Akebono Pads and put very thin OEM pads back in (used pads I had just taken off the car).
-Actively, with the car running, bled the driver's rear caliper.
NEW issues:
-Brake pedal can be pushed to the floor without a heck of a lot of force. I am pushing it with intent to use enough strength to make it hit the floor though. Doesn't go down on it's own, at all, but I don't remember it being like that. Although I went from a semi-metallic pad to a ceramic and did not do the last brake job.
-Heard a clunk noise from somewhere in the car the first time I jammed the brake pedal down after the active bleed.
-Pedal still feels spongy (I'm assuming from the crappy one man Mityvek bleeder kit that I used put air into the lines)
-All rotors are still hot after a series of tests from slow stopping, to holding the brakes going down hill, to stopping hard around 5-10 MPH.
Current State of the Car:
-All sides have Akebono pads except driver's rear.
-Rotors are less then 5 months old and are Wearver rotors.
-Brake fluid is in the middle of the empty and full lines.
-After the above tests and work cannot get the Akebono's into the driver's side rear caliper with the piston all the way back. Originally it was tough but they went in.
-Seems like the outside pad is the one that is hard to put in as the side with the piston has enough room.
Tests I did once I had my step-brother drive the car:
-Ran next to the car and listened for grinding while driving - heard none
-No Smells or burning
-Hot rotors, including the driver's rear with the thin OEM pads, which was hot just not 100% equal to the rest (assuming due to the thin pads)
-Listened as I conducted another series of test, as stated above, from the outside and heard a little bit of scraping when braking but honestly just sounded like the ceramic on metal rotor sound since they are new.
-Car will NOT stop itself anymore
-Felt all the calipers as my brother pushed the brakes and released them - all of them flexed when pumping the brakes.
-To note, the driver's rear with the OEM pads I actually could see the caliper moving inward and outward because the pads were so thin.
Things I know:
-The master cylinder was on the max line once I topped it off after the pad change but is now a touch above half between the low and full lines after the active bleed. I never added more fluid after the active bleed.
-The OEM pads are still in the driver's rear side and seem to be a tad cooler then the rest of the wheels with the new pads and are functioning correctly.
-All of the calipers seem to be expanding and contracting upon brake pumping.
-It appears that the passenger rear pads are so thick they are on the rotor but I can still, with little resistance, turn the wheel of the car (in neutral and on a jack stand) so I don't think that side is dragging.
-With the OEM pads on the driver's rear I can still turn that wheel too. Unsure about the Akebonos because I can't get them seated in the housing.
-All of these tests, unless noted, lasted about 5 minutes.
-My stepbrother, who drives a 09 Hyundai Sonata, said my pedal felt just about the same as the one in his car.
My concerns:
-Why are the rotors so hot? I've never really felt them before so I don't have anything to go on as far as comparison.
-Why won't the Akebonos fit in the drivers rear side anymore?
-Is my passenger rear side dragging or just looks like it since the pads are so thick.
-Is my brake pedal just weird because of the air in the line and I am just pushing too hard so I think it's hitting the floor?
-Is there any concern about the pad fitment and wear of rotor/pad/ect ?
-Is my car safe to drive? I have a 4 hour trip on Tuesday, in the rain, up mountains to Pittsburg and safety is the goal.
-I will bleed the car again, with help from my mechanic father later today.
sorry this is still a book to read but I need help asap since I need to work on Monday and have no spare car. not to mention all the Lexus parts are special order and with it being Sunday, wont be here till Monday at best.
Thanks for all the help guys n gals. I get all of my information from searches on CL and some of the info, tips, and tricks has surprised a few mechanics I tell but it's always spot on.
05-20-12, 07:16 AM
#2
You've probably figured out that something is not fitting right (not just the pad issue). Take it all apart and put it back together. When your car is up in the air, spin your wheel (in N) and see if you can pick up any grinding (you can hear this, since there's no road noise or engine to drown it out).
If you were just installing new pads (they are the right thickness, yes?) You should have been able to -maybe- drain a little brake fluid, compress the pistons, and install the new kit. Check the pad thickness against stock (dunno what you drive).
If you were just installing new pads (they are the right thickness, yes?) You should have been able to -maybe- drain a little brake fluid, compress the pistons, and install the new kit. Check the pad thickness against stock (dunno what you drive).
05-20-12, 07:55 AM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
wow.....I've got the same issue going on with mine after I changed to slotted and dimpled rotors. I also took my calipers off to paint and did a manual bleed just like normal.
In fact, I couldnt use the oem shims because they just wouldnt fit in the driver rear. resorted to using a single aftermarket shim on that side.
My brakes feel squishy as well, and sometimes when coming from a high speed stop I'll get some slight pulsing that I can feel thoughout the whole car, but it only happens sometimes. Other times it's smooth as silk, just squishy. I guess I'll bite the bullet and get it bled using the Techstream to make sure it isnt something going on crazy with air in the abs.
In fact, I couldnt use the oem shims because they just wouldnt fit in the driver rear. resorted to using a single aftermarket shim on that side.
My brakes feel squishy as well, and sometimes when coming from a high speed stop I'll get some slight pulsing that I can feel thoughout the whole car, but it only happens sometimes. Other times it's smooth as silk, just squishy. I guess I'll bite the bullet and get it bled using the Techstream to make sure it isnt something going on crazy with air in the abs.
05-20-12, 08:09 AM
#4
Oops Sorry I have a 2006 IS250 AWD.
mbeach......The pads were the ones offered by TireRack and everyone else who sells them for my car. I don't know what full OEM brakes measure at exactly. When I did have the Akebonos installed on the driver rear wheel it wouldn't turn at all. it was stuck. but why is it only that wheel? and why was the issue resolved with the smaller pads....other then the obvious thin pads....
06isDriver.....Only thing is that I'm using aftermarket Akebonos so I am using the shim it came with. it is a little beefy but much better then the OEM.
I just don't know why the outer pad wont fit. Unless the sealed guide pin has failed but that's only making the inside of the caliper move and such not the outer.
thanks for quick replys
mbeach......The pads were the ones offered by TireRack and everyone else who sells them for my car. I don't know what full OEM brakes measure at exactly. When I did have the Akebonos installed on the driver rear wheel it wouldn't turn at all. it was stuck. but why is it only that wheel? and why was the issue resolved with the smaller pads....other then the obvious thin pads....
06isDriver.....Only thing is that I'm using aftermarket Akebonos so I am using the shim it came with. it is a little beefy but much better then the OEM.
I just don't know why the outer pad wont fit. Unless the sealed guide pin has failed but that's only making the inside of the caliper move and such not the outer.
thanks for quick replys
05-20-12, 04:08 PM
#6
Worked with a c- clamp for me. I did take apart both guide pins on my troubled wheel and greased them up, they were partially seized. Got the akebono in that wheel with my new found clearance. But I think that due to my prior runs or something, that the rotor is warped. Or the brakes are still catching, just not that bad. Wheel is still noticeably not as smooth turning it by hand in neutral but moves
05-20-12, 04:32 PM
#7
With all the problems you are having, the first thing I would do is make sure that the brakes lines have been propelry bleed. Second, I would make sure that you have the right pads for your car. After that, i would re install the old pads and see if all the current issues are resolved. If the problems are resolved you know that the issues are with the new pads.
Why did you flush the brake fluid to change out your brake pads? Are you at the current mileage that it needs to be flushed?
Why did you flush the brake fluid to change out your brake pads? Are you at the current mileage that it needs to be flushed?
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