Does the rev limiter make S-mode fool proof?
06-03-10, 07:41 PM
#1
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tri-state
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does the rev limiter make S-mode fool proof?
Hey all,
I was trying manual mode today. I tried to do a rolling start @ about 5mph. I floored it in S mode (set to 1st gear). I wanted to go thru the gears myself.
Anyway, after I floored it, I tried to upshift with the paddle.. but I miscalculated how slowly it'd shift up. As a result, I THINK!!! I was @ redline for a bit or possible bouncing off the rev limiter. I did get a decent roar/high pitch from the engine.
Anyway, did I do much harm? This is really the first time I've put my car thru this.. It only has 2k on it.
Thanks!
I was trying manual mode today. I tried to do a rolling start @ about 5mph. I floored it in S mode (set to 1st gear). I wanted to go thru the gears myself.
Anyway, after I floored it, I tried to upshift with the paddle.. but I miscalculated how slowly it'd shift up. As a result, I THINK!!! I was @ redline for a bit or possible bouncing off the rev limiter. I did get a decent roar/high pitch from the engine.
Anyway, did I do much harm? This is really the first time I've put my car thru this.. It only has 2k on it.
Thanks!
06-03-10, 08:05 PM
#2
No no no, all wrong.
First off, to calm your nerves, no you didn't do any harm. I know exactly what you're talking about because it happened to me before when I did not quite understand what S mode was.
Now, you cannot "go through the gears" yourself with S mode or the paddles. They are not shifters, they are simply gear limiters.
Let's say you set S mode to 1st gear, as you did. What this does is set the ceiling gear to 1st gear and nothing more. Let's say, while in S mode 1st gear, you floor it.
What happens if you press the "+" paddle? It will set the limiting gear to 2. Does this mean it will shift the gear to 2? The answer is no. The shifting in the IS350 is entirely done by the automatic transmission.
What does this mean? It means, if you have the car in S mode in 1st gear and you floor it, it does not matter when (during WOT in 1st gear) you press the "+" paddle because you have no control over when the car will shift to 2nd gear. The only thing you have control over is setting the limiting gear.
Therefore, if you slammed on the gas while in S mode 1 and you immediately pressed the + paddle to make it go into S mode 2, this would be equivalent to waiting for the car to approach red line and then pressing the + paddle. In both cases, you never have the capability to manually shift the car into 2nd gear.
Now what happened in your case? In your case, you set the car to S mode 1, thereby limiting the car to 1st gear. You floored it, and because you did not set the limiting gear to 2 or higher fast enough, you reached limit and probably experienced an odd noise with the RPM meter bouncing off the rev limit. Because you cannot control when the car will shift into 2nd gear, the only sequence that possibly make sense (and will ever be useful) is to do the following:
1) Set the car into S mode 1
2) Floor it while in S mode 1
and
3) Before you reach the limit of 1st gear, which is 36 MPH, press the + paddle to set the limiting gear to 2 or higher.
This gets to a key point about gear limiters. Are they entirely useless? Well, almost. They are almost entirely useless but do have some very limited use. Let me give you a few examples -
Let's say you're rolling along at 40 MPH on a freeway in D mode. What will the car do? After getting up to 40 MPH through 1st and 2nd gear, it will probably put you into a much higher gear very soon, usually 6th (over time). You're cruising along the freeway at 40 MPH in 6th gear.
What happens if you press the "- paddle"? You'll hear a ker-clunk, experience a little jitter, and the car will set the limiting gear to 5. Press - paddle again, the limiting gear will be 4, keep doing this until the limiting gear is 2. You have now temporarily limited the car to 2nd gear while still in D mode.
What happens if you now stomp on the accelerator? Well, you will experience zero downshift delay and will immediately rocket off in 2nd gear, which ends at 60 MPH.
Let's say you planned to accelerate to 80 MPH from 40 MPH. What I would do is I would stomp on the accelerator while in "partial S mode 2" (i.e. still in D mode, but having limited the car to gear 2 using the paddles, while still in D mode), and then immediately when the car is at 45, 46, 50 MPH, I would press the + paddle once or twice...or even 3 times to set the limiting gear back to 3, 4, or 5, making sure that I press the + paddles sufficiently fast enough before the car has a chance to reach 60 MPH which is the limit for 2nd gear.
What would happen if I didn't raise the limiting gear quick enough? I would experience precisely what you experienced, the car hitting the rev limiter in 2nd gear while you're stuck at 60. You would then have to press the + paddle which would increase the limiting gear to 3rd, and only then would the automatic transmission do its job and actually shift to 3rd. The result is massive unnecessary extra delay because you did not raise the limiting gear fast enough.
You have the 2010 model which means you do not even need to mess with S mode. Why? Because those paddle gear limiters will work for you, temporarily, even in D mode, as I just described above.
Let me know if you have any questions or if anything was not clear. In a following post, I will try to give you some more examples where S mode or partial S mode (i.e. limiting gears, not manually shifting the car because this is impossible) is useful.
First off, to calm your nerves, no you didn't do any harm. I know exactly what you're talking about because it happened to me before when I did not quite understand what S mode was.
Now, you cannot "go through the gears" yourself with S mode or the paddles. They are not shifters, they are simply gear limiters.
Let's say you set S mode to 1st gear, as you did. What this does is set the ceiling gear to 1st gear and nothing more. Let's say, while in S mode 1st gear, you floor it.
What happens if you press the "+" paddle? It will set the limiting gear to 2. Does this mean it will shift the gear to 2? The answer is no. The shifting in the IS350 is entirely done by the automatic transmission.
What does this mean? It means, if you have the car in S mode in 1st gear and you floor it, it does not matter when (during WOT in 1st gear) you press the "+" paddle because you have no control over when the car will shift to 2nd gear. The only thing you have control over is setting the limiting gear.
Therefore, if you slammed on the gas while in S mode 1 and you immediately pressed the + paddle to make it go into S mode 2, this would be equivalent to waiting for the car to approach red line and then pressing the + paddle. In both cases, you never have the capability to manually shift the car into 2nd gear.
Now what happened in your case? In your case, you set the car to S mode 1, thereby limiting the car to 1st gear. You floored it, and because you did not set the limiting gear to 2 or higher fast enough, you reached limit and probably experienced an odd noise with the RPM meter bouncing off the rev limit. Because you cannot control when the car will shift into 2nd gear, the only sequence that possibly make sense (and will ever be useful) is to do the following:
1) Set the car into S mode 1
2) Floor it while in S mode 1
and
3) Before you reach the limit of 1st gear, which is 36 MPH, press the + paddle to set the limiting gear to 2 or higher.
This gets to a key point about gear limiters. Are they entirely useless? Well, almost. They are almost entirely useless but do have some very limited use. Let me give you a few examples -
Let's say you're rolling along at 40 MPH on a freeway in D mode. What will the car do? After getting up to 40 MPH through 1st and 2nd gear, it will probably put you into a much higher gear very soon, usually 6th (over time). You're cruising along the freeway at 40 MPH in 6th gear.
What happens if you press the "- paddle"? You'll hear a ker-clunk, experience a little jitter, and the car will set the limiting gear to 5. Press - paddle again, the limiting gear will be 4, keep doing this until the limiting gear is 2. You have now temporarily limited the car to 2nd gear while still in D mode.
What happens if you now stomp on the accelerator? Well, you will experience zero downshift delay and will immediately rocket off in 2nd gear, which ends at 60 MPH.
Let's say you planned to accelerate to 80 MPH from 40 MPH. What I would do is I would stomp on the accelerator while in "partial S mode 2" (i.e. still in D mode, but having limited the car to gear 2 using the paddles, while still in D mode), and then immediately when the car is at 45, 46, 50 MPH, I would press the + paddle once or twice...or even 3 times to set the limiting gear back to 3, 4, or 5, making sure that I press the + paddles sufficiently fast enough before the car has a chance to reach 60 MPH which is the limit for 2nd gear.
What would happen if I didn't raise the limiting gear quick enough? I would experience precisely what you experienced, the car hitting the rev limiter in 2nd gear while you're stuck at 60. You would then have to press the + paddle which would increase the limiting gear to 3rd, and only then would the automatic transmission do its job and actually shift to 3rd. The result is massive unnecessary extra delay because you did not raise the limiting gear fast enough.
You have the 2010 model which means you do not even need to mess with S mode. Why? Because those paddle gear limiters will work for you, temporarily, even in D mode, as I just described above.
Let me know if you have any questions or if anything was not clear. In a following post, I will try to give you some more examples where S mode or partial S mode (i.e. limiting gears, not manually shifting the car because this is impossible) is useful.
06-03-10, 08:07 PM
#3
Let's say you're in S mode 1 and you stomp on the gas pedal, and you just manage to hit the +paddle before you reach the limit for the particular gear you are in. What would be the result?
The result would be the illusion that you have some sort of control over shifting the car from 1st to 2nd to 3rd and so on, but this is merely an illusion.
All you are really doing is increasing the limiting gear to 2 (and then the car automatically shifts to gear 2), then raising the limiting gear to 3 (and then the car's automatic transmission shifts the gear to 3), and so on.
That's all that would be going on. The + paddle does not shift the car from 1st to 2nd to 3rd.
The result would be the illusion that you have some sort of control over shifting the car from 1st to 2nd to 3rd and so on, but this is merely an illusion.
All you are really doing is increasing the limiting gear to 2 (and then the car automatically shifts to gear 2), then raising the limiting gear to 3 (and then the car's automatic transmission shifts the gear to 3), and so on.
That's all that would be going on. The + paddle does not shift the car from 1st to 2nd to 3rd.
06-03-10, 08:25 PM
#6
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Tri-state
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Super thorough post! Thanks for the info!
I tried this with my dad's RDX. Just has a different feel to it. I was expecting more driver input into the shift points.
Anyway thanks again!
I tried this with my dad's RDX. Just has a different feel to it. I was expecting more driver input into the shift points.
Anyway thanks again!
06-03-10, 09:18 PM
#7
Let me preface this next scenario by saying that this can be dangerous if you do not understand what exactly is going on, or if you are not quick enough in your motions. If you try this situation, I would suggest you try it when the roads are completely clear so you can get used to the timing and what exactly is happening -
Let's say you're the first at a traffic light on a freeway going northbound initially, and you are waiting to take a u-turn to go southbound on this same freeway.
Light turns green, what happens next?
You are in D mode, you start rolling out (in 1st gear), as you make the turn, what will the IS350 do? It will sometimes automatically put you into a higher gear, often 2nd gear, while you are still rolling along (at partial throttle) making this u-turn below the limiting speed of 1st gear, which is 36 MPH.
Once you have completed the u turn and you look down at your display gauge, you'll notice that the car had automatically put you into 2nd gear throughout the u-turn motion while you're still going 10..11..12 MPH, well below the limiting speed for 1st gear. How annoying is this? I find it to be slightly annoying. I want to use my ferocious 1st gear, damnit!
Next, what happens if you then stomp on the accelerator pedal. Most of the time, if you are well below 36 MPH, the car will automatically shift from 2nd into 1st gear and rocket you off through 1st gear. Nevertheless, you have to deal with the delay of the auto transmission first putting you into 2nd gear prematurely through the turn and then shifting back into 1st when you stomp on the gas pedal. Annoying? I think so.
This is where the gear limiters come in! As far as I'm concerned, this is virtually the only relevant real life example where gear limiters are of any practical use.
You're at the stop light waiting to take a u-turn. While you are at a complete stop, you press the "- paddle." What happens? Absolutely nothing. These paddle gear limiters (while you are in D mode for 2009+ models) do not work if you are at a complete stop, this is just a quick point I wanted to throw out, but I'm sure you already knew this.
Ok, so the light turns green, and you start rolling out at 3..4..5 MPH. Now, you press the "- paddle" (all while still in D mode). What happens? You should now see that the limiting gear in the car is 1st gear.
You make your u-turn and, how joyous, you are in 1st gear throughout the entire turn. You have forced the car to remain in 1st gear, temporarily.
Coming out of the u-turn, you do the following:
1) You floor it while the limiting gear is temporarily set to 1st gear and you begin to rocket off, immediately, in 1st gear. No transmission shift delay (from 2nd to 1st) because you remained in 1st gear throughout the u-turn!
2) IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU FLOOR IT you quickly and immediately press the "+ paddle" 4 or 5 times.
Yes, 4 or 5 times! (Ok technically it doesn't have to be 4 or 5 times, that's simply what I do, and I said "4 or 5 times" to further emphasize the important point that you have literally 0 control in choosing when the car will shift to 2nd, 3rd, etc.. Technically, you have to raise the limiting gear to at least "2" fast enough before you reach 36 MPH while going WOT, and then subsequently raise the limiting gear to at least "3" before you reach 60 MPH while going WOT. But, since you have no control in shifting the car to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and so on, why not raise the limiting gear to the highest as soon as possible? That's the point, that's why you might as well press it 4 or 5 times immediately)
Yes, I needed to bold all of those words! This is such a key point about these wonky gear limiters that our cars have.
You press the + paddle 4 or 5 times immediately after you go WOT while the limiting gear is set to 1st, and you make sure you press this + paddle shifter 4 or 5 times well before you reach 36 MPH
If you know anything about the IS350, you'll know that the IS350 is quite the stoplight demon, and it reaches 36 MPH...rather quickly. Extremely quickly.
There is literally no time to spare. You floor the car while in temporary S mode 1 (i.e. car is set to D you roll out, you press the - paddle to temporarily set the limiting gear to 1st), and you immediately press the + paddle multiple times while you're going WOT.
I've emphasized "while you're going WOT" multiple times. Why? To answer that, let's do another thought experiment.
You are stopped on an empty road. You roll out (in 1st gear), you press the - paddle to temporarily limit the car to 1st gear. You continue going, say, 10 MPH while the limiting gear is set to 1st gear. While you are going 10 MPH at partial throttle, what happens if you press the + paddle? You would set the limiting gear to 2nd gear of course. But, what would the automatic transmission then do? It would then shift you into the now allowed 2nd gear while you are still going 10 MPH.
Thus, you can imagine that if you were at this stop light waiting to make a u-turn, and you rolled out, pressed the - paddle (to temporarily set the limiting gear to 1st gear), and then while still rolling out and making your u-turn at partial throttle you prematurely pressed the + paddle, the car's automatic transmission will almost certainly automatically shift you into the highest gear that you allow, making the entire exercise useless.
Recall - the exercise was to find a sequence that would force the car to remain in 1st gear throughout the entire u-turn and subsequent WOT so as to avoid the transmission delay from 2nd to 1st upon going WOT after making this u-turn, given the fact that the automatic transmission, in its never ending effort to conserve gas, tends to put this car into higher gears rather quickly during partial throttle.
Everything I said can also be achieved for 06-08 models. The only difference is obviously, you 06-08 guys need to actually use S mode initially and then use the paddle gear limiters. 09+ has the advantage in that you can use the paddle gear limiters while in D mode. However, the effect will only remain temporarily.
Fortunately for stunts like the scenario I described above, this partial S mode lasts more than long enough for the job to get done.
When is S mode useful if you're rolling along on the freeway at 60 MPH? Honestly, almost never. The only time it could ever possibly be useful is if you wanted to partake in an illegal street race where the two racers decided to do a 40 MPH roll or something. I'm not even going to describe in detail what you would need to do because I'd rather not condone proper street racing technique.
For those of you who completely understand what these gear limiters are and how they work, you should have no problem in figuring out the precise sequence, using gear limiters, to properly conduct an illegal 40 MPH roll street race
, so it would probably be a moot point anyway.
Let's say you're the first at a traffic light on a freeway going northbound initially, and you are waiting to take a u-turn to go southbound on this same freeway.
Light turns green, what happens next?
You are in D mode, you start rolling out (in 1st gear), as you make the turn, what will the IS350 do? It will sometimes automatically put you into a higher gear, often 2nd gear, while you are still rolling along (at partial throttle) making this u-turn below the limiting speed of 1st gear, which is 36 MPH.
Once you have completed the u turn and you look down at your display gauge, you'll notice that the car had automatically put you into 2nd gear throughout the u-turn motion while you're still going 10..11..12 MPH, well below the limiting speed for 1st gear. How annoying is this? I find it to be slightly annoying. I want to use my ferocious 1st gear, damnit!
Next, what happens if you then stomp on the accelerator pedal. Most of the time, if you are well below 36 MPH, the car will automatically shift from 2nd into 1st gear and rocket you off through 1st gear. Nevertheless, you have to deal with the delay of the auto transmission first putting you into 2nd gear prematurely through the turn and then shifting back into 1st when you stomp on the gas pedal. Annoying? I think so.
This is where the gear limiters come in! As far as I'm concerned, this is virtually the only relevant real life example where gear limiters are of any practical use.
You're at the stop light waiting to take a u-turn. While you are at a complete stop, you press the "- paddle." What happens? Absolutely nothing. These paddle gear limiters (while you are in D mode for 2009+ models) do not work if you are at a complete stop, this is just a quick point I wanted to throw out, but I'm sure you already knew this.
Ok, so the light turns green, and you start rolling out at 3..4..5 MPH. Now, you press the "- paddle" (all while still in D mode). What happens? You should now see that the limiting gear in the car is 1st gear.
You make your u-turn and, how joyous, you are in 1st gear throughout the entire turn. You have forced the car to remain in 1st gear, temporarily.
Coming out of the u-turn, you do the following:
1) You floor it while the limiting gear is temporarily set to 1st gear and you begin to rocket off, immediately, in 1st gear. No transmission shift delay (from 2nd to 1st) because you remained in 1st gear throughout the u-turn!
2) IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU FLOOR IT you quickly and immediately press the "+ paddle" 4 or 5 times.
Yes, 4 or 5 times! (Ok technically it doesn't have to be 4 or 5 times, that's simply what I do, and I said "4 or 5 times" to further emphasize the important point that you have literally 0 control in choosing when the car will shift to 2nd, 3rd, etc.. Technically, you have to raise the limiting gear to at least "2" fast enough before you reach 36 MPH while going WOT, and then subsequently raise the limiting gear to at least "3" before you reach 60 MPH while going WOT. But, since you have no control in shifting the car to 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and so on, why not raise the limiting gear to the highest as soon as possible? That's the point, that's why you might as well press it 4 or 5 times immediately)
Yes, I needed to bold all of those words! This is such a key point about these wonky gear limiters that our cars have.
You press the + paddle 4 or 5 times immediately after you go WOT while the limiting gear is set to 1st, and you make sure you press this + paddle shifter 4 or 5 times well before you reach 36 MPH
If you know anything about the IS350, you'll know that the IS350 is quite the stoplight demon, and it reaches 36 MPH...rather quickly. Extremely quickly.
There is literally no time to spare. You floor the car while in temporary S mode 1 (i.e. car is set to D you roll out, you press the - paddle to temporarily set the limiting gear to 1st), and you immediately press the + paddle multiple times while you're going WOT.
I've emphasized "while you're going WOT" multiple times. Why? To answer that, let's do another thought experiment.
You are stopped on an empty road. You roll out (in 1st gear), you press the - paddle to temporarily limit the car to 1st gear. You continue going, say, 10 MPH while the limiting gear is set to 1st gear. While you are going 10 MPH at partial throttle, what happens if you press the + paddle? You would set the limiting gear to 2nd gear of course. But, what would the automatic transmission then do? It would then shift you into the now allowed 2nd gear while you are still going 10 MPH.
Thus, you can imagine that if you were at this stop light waiting to make a u-turn, and you rolled out, pressed the - paddle (to temporarily set the limiting gear to 1st gear), and then while still rolling out and making your u-turn at partial throttle you prematurely pressed the + paddle, the car's automatic transmission will almost certainly automatically shift you into the highest gear that you allow, making the entire exercise useless.
Recall - the exercise was to find a sequence that would force the car to remain in 1st gear throughout the entire u-turn and subsequent WOT so as to avoid the transmission delay from 2nd to 1st upon going WOT after making this u-turn, given the fact that the automatic transmission, in its never ending effort to conserve gas, tends to put this car into higher gears rather quickly during partial throttle.
Everything I said can also be achieved for 06-08 models. The only difference is obviously, you 06-08 guys need to actually use S mode initially and then use the paddle gear limiters. 09+ has the advantage in that you can use the paddle gear limiters while in D mode. However, the effect will only remain temporarily.
Fortunately for stunts like the scenario I described above, this partial S mode lasts more than long enough for the job to get done.
When is S mode useful if you're rolling along on the freeway at 60 MPH? Honestly, almost never. The only time it could ever possibly be useful is if you wanted to partake in an illegal street race where the two racers decided to do a 40 MPH roll or something. I'm not even going to describe in detail what you would need to do because I'd rather not condone proper street racing technique.
For those of you who completely understand what these gear limiters are and how they work, you should have no problem in figuring out the precise sequence, using gear limiters, to properly conduct an illegal 40 MPH roll street race
, so it would probably be a moot point anyway.
Trending Topics
06-18-10, 11:12 AM
#11
Lead Lap
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 702
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see why this is a big deal to people, or was even needed to be updated by Lexus in '09....just put the lever into S mode and paddle up twice when you drive off. Done.
Unless I'm not understanding - are you guys saying that if you're in D mode and the car happens to be in 4th gear at the time...that you can down paddle and it will shift to 3rd gear temporarily?
That said, I always use S mode, so this still wouldn't benefit me
06-18-10, 12:02 PM
#12
I don't see why this is a big deal to people, or was even needed to be updated by Lexus in '09....just put the lever into S mode and paddle up twice when you drive off. Done.
Unless I'm not understanding - are you guys saying that if you're in D mode and the car happens to be in 4th gear at the time...that you can down paddle and it will shift to 3rd gear temporarily?
That said, I always use S mode, so this still wouldn't benefit me
Unless I'm not understanding - are you guys saying that if you're in D mode and the car happens to be in 4th gear at the time...that you can down paddle and it will shift to 3rd gear temporarily?
That said, I always use S mode, so this still wouldn't benefit me
But, you are also correct that you can simply drive around in S mode all the time. There is no problems there, and functionally you can achieve the same things.
