i still consider the 3-series as the benchmark for the class, though it still leaves a lot to be desired for in other departments. but that's a discussion i save for another time. for the time being, i'll keep it within the japanese brands...

btw, you obviously glossed over the part where i said "though not by much now", but then i'd be picking on your overall lack of comprehension. so before this discussion breaks down into thread anarchy (queue moderators "thread lock"), i'm going to try my best to keep this civil and objective.

my is350 is vintage 2006, and by 2006 standards the g35 nor the TL stacks up to it in terms of overall performance, luxury, and quality. the same obviously doesn't hold true in 2009. but again, it outperforms the g35 and the new TL - though by much slimmer margins than 2006 numbers. also, while the g37's and the TL's fit and finish has come a long way, it simply doesn't have lexus's legendary "touch".

now, while i'm perfectly comfortable using BMW's iDrive system (living w/ several other BMW owners under the same roof), i find it funny that for both companies trying to out-do the germans they would "adapt" (steal, adapt, same thing...) a center console control mimicking that of the iDrive, not to mention their poor iDrive-wannabe control **** location (try leaning forward and use the **** during spirited manuevers). sure, those two cars are more technically advanced as far as options and offerings, but i still get compliments about how nice my nav's touch screen is to look and and use. oh, and not to mention the fact that the 2is is thankfully missing an iDrive-wannabe control ****.

i've driven everything in the 2is class, from test-drives to friends' cars to loaners - in 2006 and in 2009. while the 2is is not a class-beater, it is still competitive for a three-year-old design.

while the TL has come a long way in performance and handling, the S-AWD 308-hp version is heavier and not quite as sharp or responsive through turns. and if the AWD version of the TL is not THAT great, imagine how the front wheel drive TL does. on the other hand, the g37 is a beast in a straight line (gobs of torque), but it's actually gotten a little bit sloppier through the turns than the previous-generation g35. credit that to its larger overall dimensions and weight.

btw, the first-gen IS was released as a model year (MY) 2001 car. the first-gen g35 was released as a MY2002 car. you think infiniti and acura didn't think of upping the ante as far as horsepower numbers?

also, i have to respecfully disagree that the g37 is a driver's car. as a matter of fact, none of the three cars is a "driver's car". on the other hand, it each excels in specific areas that the two don't do as well - which on average makes each on par with the others. that's when you really need to subjectively evaluate what else each car brings to the discussion. high-tech wizardry gizmos, actual roominess for five adults and lots of power, or (imo) the japanese benchmark for the entry-level luxury sports sedan?

 

My sis has an IS that I practically drive cause she hates driving and I have a G...

I see your points in the interior quality to the IS, but the seating varies since every body contours differently. Some people are skinny and some people are fat.

Low end lacking also varies from butt to butt. Some butt dynos are calibrated while some are not. Even when low end lacks, top end compensates. Dyno charts should be a better indication to settle the power band debate. The G37 has a broader power band than the G35 and is noticeable. But I'm sure you've picked up on that since you've test driving both. VQ35HR (HR=high rev)

Comparing the G to the IS I would want to take the G to its limits before the IS. I'm gonna get more comments about this but driving the IS is like floating on a cloud. Sure the IS isn't the softest Lexus but compared to the G it sure feels like it. Aftermarket of course changes things. What other do you want?

 

The BMW 3 series have been a consideration of benchmark by many reviewers. Some reputable while some are not, if published articles are to be used one has to be weary of any bias towards any particular brand favorite. As with the assessments of reviewers, their conception and views may differ as is yours from mine. Whilst the analyst of such entry level sports luxury automobiles are being examined, I'm sure that their marketing/business spending from each manufacturer have been taken into consideration in the aspect to your "still leaves a lot to be desired" statement. As with the majority of people's mentality, an expectation of a fine Chardonnay is to be had for the price of beer. Regarding the statement of the 300+hp club, whereas you have not include the Japanese brands I would have countered with the AMG, //M, S line from the German contenders.

My comprehension of your literature is clear and understood, but I have a feeling mine were not to your eyes. The part of the "though not by much now" statement is well have been responded with the "(in 2006 as well as 2009)." My implication was that with the ISx50's debut in 2006, its competitions were still not worlds apart. Even in 2009 with the debut of the new TL and G37 (referring to your closing gap statement so it is easier to perceive), what credentials can be had for the fact that even with the "outdated" IS that it still triumphs? 2006 is 2006 and 2009 is 2009, while some of the competition overlaps each manufacturer goes according to their build times.

MY2009 released the G37 from Infiniti, while some may display their fanboyism in a "Lexus" forum I will allow comments as to performance of G37 vs IS350 to those who search for their own information. As for the MY2006 comparisons, I would agree with you that the IS has better quality in materials used. Sizing is also a factor in defining luxury, hence why the entry level cars like the IS, C-class, 3 series, A4 etc can not be considered full luxury regardless of their options and technological gadgetry. Driving dynamics can in a way go hand in hand with the performance aspect, although the numbers are stronger points. Many publications have bracket the G closest to the benchmark, whereas the IS350 weren't.

The touchscreen navigation is a good feature, but Acura's navigation systems wins hands down. They produce one of the best navigation systems today.

The introduction of the i-drive have its flaws as is the introduction of many innovations. Bugs and defects are to be expected as it is new. The newer i-drive systems have been more user friendly and simplified. If your statement on the i-drive is to bash on the German automobiles, it doesn't affect me any bit. But if you can, please inform me of which car manufacturer were the first company to offer stability control, crumple zones, seat belts, air bags, etc etc etc. As well as the first car company to innovate a self parking system into a car (although not released onto production). All those innovations which people take for granted weren't from the Japanese... This debate can go as far back as to the first automobile, then the statement of the rest are copy cats would hold true.

Three year old design, sure. But what appears in today's market is what is being compared. One can say that a 2002 Mercedes C32 AMG outperforms a 2009 IS350 when using the used car market data.

Performance was never a priority in Acura's lineup (excluding the NSX if seen as luxury) and neither was their newer S-AWD system, hence their absence of an engine with more than 6 cylinders. Technology and the information are at Honda/Acura's fingertips, they just don't implement them. The front wheel drive TL holds its own, you must have the mentality of torque steer that ruins a car's power when in fact there are many FWD automobile that are good performers (Integra Type-R, Mini Cooper, TSX etc) and cars like the Maxima, SRT-4, MS3 with tech that help with torque steer. A few tests have shown that the 0-60 times for G37 and IS350 were close. Steering on the other hand, the IS350 feels sloppier than the G. The G37 is heavier than the previous generation but weight is similar to the IS350.

I'm not sure what you mean by ante the horsepower numbers as Lexus could have always added more power to their IS300 model but didn't... Infiniti did though. Selling point for Infiniti, not Lexus. 2003 G35 got 260 hp, 2005 G35 got 280 hp. 2001-2005 IS300 saw no increase/decrease in power.

Your opinions is yours and you are free to disagree as I have with some of your opinions. Free country after all. Driver's car as in driver's satisfaction when driving. Sure the cars mentioned may not be a driver's car when compared to a Lotus but within the choices, the driving dynamics of the G wins. The Acura drives well, comfortable but similar to the IS it doesn't have the fun factor of pushing the car to its limits. Perhaps that is due to the reason of the transmission choice in the IS350, I dunno. But even when all are auto. Since we are in the discussion of what each car brings, before I continue, would you consider pricing a valid comparison? Seeing as how the IS350 has a higher price tag when comparably equipped against a G37.

 

Bear in mind most interior rattles do not begin when a car is brand new or during one test drive. They accumulate as the miles accumulate. I've done some G35 research and it appears interior rattles is the number one complaint from owners- similar to IS people.

I'd also like to add, for a vintage of 2006, the IS has stayed quit competive with the newer models. All this means is when the 3IS debuts, it's going to be ahead and everyone else will be playing catch up.

 

Good input. The G37 I drove was a rental with nearly 10,000 hard miles, in comparison with my IS350 with only 11,500 absolutely babied miles. The G was rock solid, and my IS rattled like crazy when I got back into it.

I don't question the competitiveness of the IS - I bought one for a reason back in 2006. However, I think my decision would be different if I were buying today.

 

The throttle is pretty touchy, but the car accelerated very well. Acceleration in the top-end seemed very good as well. A quick run from 80-110 was fantastic - practically effortless. As discussed earlier, a lot of this has to do with gearing, but I'm more concerned with the results than the means.

 

As opposed to the 21st century analog clock?

 

What's wrong with the clock? I have no nav and the radio and the clock are in the same fashion. I think it looks good, much easier to read than a regular clock on Infiniti

 

+1

BOTTOM LINE

LEXUS>INFINITI anyday !!!!


u should be comparing acura with infiniti

 

I drove my friends G37s awhile back...and I think it's a great car...but I still like my F...

 

Ture ISF will solve the prob

I just bought IS350 yesterday after test drove it at the same day.
I had this car in my mind when I drove IS300 couple years ago.
If you disable VDIM, it will do 0-60mph @ 4.63s (or 2nd try 4.72s).
I think it has the best acceleration for 306hp engines because of close-ratio 1,2,3 gears.

 

going fast with more HP doesn't mean it is a driver's car....

 

Wow...do we really want to start implying that the G37 is comparable to the ISF? I'm not even sure the two are supposed to be competing for the same buyers. The sad part is that you can't get an ISF with a manual transmission either. Enthusiast fail.

Thanks for the good discussion in this thread - I'm glad it didn't turn emotional. A great part of the benefit of owning my IS350 has been the valuable input I get from this forum.

 

if you've actually read through my entire post (apparently, you haven't) or have a general comprehension of what i posted (apparently, you're missing it), you'd see that near the end i said that "none of the three cars is a true 'driver's car'." i made that statement to imply that going fast w/ more horsepower a driver's car it does not make. don't misinterpret my posts just because you failed to read it in its entirety.

 

Drove my buddy's G37 last week. Pickup felt the same as my IS350. We still have to go head to head the track.