JC-RH

iTrader: (1)

i'm in the process of trying to a 2009 IS250. So far, the best deal is $2500 off MSRP. Keep in mind I'm looking for a 6MT/Luxury Pkg/NAV w/ bluetooth. I know this car, especially with Starfire exterior and black interior is going to be tough to come across. Everyone is saying that it has to be a special order, which is fine with me. From your experience (and remember that the '09s are just rolling out), how willing to negotiate were dealers??

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Depends entirely on the dealer.

Some aren't interested if you're not buying off the lot.

Some are smart enough to realize that a guaranteed sale that requries no sales work (since you know exactly what you want) in exchange for them just doing some paperwork is a pretty smart deal for them.

kickin8

iTrader: (1)

they wont budge with special orders...... and it takes months to get it....

I got mine through carsdirect + $750 taste of lexus coupon....

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

It does take months (2.5 months in my case- but it seems worth waiting for...why spend 35-40k and NOT get -exactly- what you want?)

They certainly WILL budge if you work with a reasonable dealer though. I've yet to see anyone quote a lower price for an off-the-lot 350 than what I paid for my 08 special order.

sinister2c

supply and demand....they know you want to it so they wont budge.

cmaIS250

I placed a special order for a 2009 IS250 6MT/PT/HL/NV/Z1/LR/P5 for $33,884 + TTL. MSRP is $37,143 so $3259 off MSRP.

I really wanted to get a 6MT with luxury package but from months of research and talking to dealerships, I have come to conclusion that it is not possible to get that option even though it is listed on lexus.com. There is a member IntegresS who has access to the ordering system and can verify that this option is not available for a 2009 6MT.

JC-RH

iTrader: (1)

so what did you end up paying? how much of a discount was that compared to MSRP?

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Smart buyers don't care about MSRP. It's a fake number.

You should care about invoice, and pay as little as possible above it.

One advantage to that is once you agree to a deal for "X above invoice" (with x being a very small number) then adding options to the base vehicle doesn't add any more markup to the car.

Agreeing instead of "X below MSRP" means every option you add is putting additional markup on what you are paying.

Depending on the dealership, time of year, economy, etc, I'd never pay more than $1000 over invoice for any vehicle, and usually as close to $0 over as possible.

Omnivor

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. The vehicle and options all have both invoice and MSRP prices listed so agreeing to M(SRP) - D(ISCOUNT) is not really any different than agreeing to I(NVOICE) + A(BOVE INVOICE) because M = I + C where C is a known constant. Given, the constant is different for different options and the vehicle itself, but that doesn't really change the whole equation.

Just because you agreed to an I + A price doesn't mean all options you add are exactly at invoice (i.e. "doesn't add any more markup to the car"). If you're distinguishing adding markups to the "car" versus to an "options list" or something, then I'm even more confused as that's just shifting the cost to somewhere else, because in the end, you're paying for [car price] + [options/packages prices].

But overall, I think people like saying "X below MSRP" more than "Y above invoice" because the operative word "below" sounds much better to individuals, and makes the deal sound better.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Absolutely it is different. Let me give you an example.

Base price is 30k

MSRP is 40k

Your deal is for MSRP minus 5k. 35k

My deal is for Invoice plus 5k. 35k

Sounds the same, right?

Not when you option it.

Because you're paying MSRP for each option, and I'm paying invoice for each option.

If the option for nav is $3000 MSRP and $2000 invoice my car is now $37000 (30k plus 2k plus 5k), yours is now $38000 (40k plus 3k minus 5k). And it gets worse for you for every option you add.

Agreeing to I+A to use your terms means -exactly- that all options you add are exactly at invoice instead of MSRP.

Omnivor

Well, yes, I understand the idea of what you're saying, and I did mention it in my earlier post--I just don't see how that'd work when you're negotiating. I mean, say I'm the sales associate, and we've worked out invoice + x for your car. But why would that make me offer invoice for any and all options, without any negotiations? In your example, wouldn't I be likely to add Nav for maybe $2000 + $400?

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that negotiating M - D sets a precedent of paying MSRP for each option, whereas I + A sets a precedent of paying invoice only? I've never special ordered a car before, so admittedly I have no experience and the process could be very different from buying a car off the lot, and also vary from dealerships. It's just that idea just seems a bit bizarre to me.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

No, it's exactly how you describe it.... if you salesman says "You can special order a car with whatever you want then we'll give you $5000 off MSRP" he will add up the options, using MSRP for all of them, then knock 5k off.

If you agree you can special order with whatever options you want and you will pay $5000 above the invoice price he will compute the invoice of the car with your options and add $5000. Even if there was exactly a 10k difference in base price between MSRP and invoice this will be significantly cheaper since you've paid invoice for your options instead of MSRP.

And it's -exactly- how I bought my special order vehicle.

Omnivor

Ah, yes, I see how it could be a little different when negotiating when you put it that way. Thanks for explaining, I'm sure it would come in useful if I end up having to special order mine.