c3uo

I have a 2016 Leus RX450h with only 35,000 miles. I was shocked when I was told by the dealer when it was in for service that I needed new front brake pads. I told them I would do it myself and went home to look closer.

Well - see below picture. The outside pads are like new on the front, but the inside pads are completely worn. They are like this on both my front driver and passenger side. Rather shocking for the age and mileage. The caliper and slide pins are not sticking and seem to be functioning properly.

My first Lexus after numerous BMWs. Not so impressed.



Thoughts? I bought the hybrid thinking it would never need brakes under my ownership. I've always gotten over 60,000 miles on a set of pads on my BMWs.

c3uo

Sorry - posted this in Hybrid Forum and meant to post in main forum.

I have a 2016 Lexus RX450h with only 35,000 miles. I was shocked when I was told by the dealer that I needed new front brake pads. I told them I would do it myself and went home to look closer.

Well - see below picture. The outside pads are like new on the front, but the inside pads are completely worn. They are like this on both my front driver and passenger sides. Rather shocking for the age and mileage. The caliper and slide pins are not sticking and seem to be functioning properly.

My first Lexus after numerous BMWs. Thoughts? I bought the hybrid thinking it would never need brakes under my ownership. I've always gotten over 60,000 miles on a set of pads on my BMWs (easy driver).

ericsan13

What kind of BMW was it? The heavier the car, the faster the brake pads will wear.

Also what kind of driving do you normally do? Stop-and-go traffic is worse for the pads since hybrids use physical brakes under ~8mph.

Finally, what is your overall MPG? This might give us an idea of how well you maximized the hybrid brake recovery.

c3uo

Thanks for your reply ericsan13.
- Previous BMW X5 diesel (much heavier), then BMW X3 35i (similar weight).
- Primarily cruising 30 to 65 MPH. Live in small town.
- Usually around 27 USMPG. Although we have a lot of cold weather. It's only hit highs of 70 f so far this summer. It's amazing how much worse the hybrid does in cold weather and how awesome it does above 65 F.

I expect the slide pins both got corroded (salty roads) and stuck - leading towards the uneven wear. It just sucks to have to do an expensive brake job so young in the ownership experience. For comparison, I didthe X5 rear brakes at 50,000 miles, and the fronts still had half pad when I traded it at 65,000 miles.

ericsan13

I'm going to guess that something is wrong. Some things do not add up though. Your MPG is high but apparently your brakes have been overly applied. Not sure how much of an impact that would be.

JSracer

slides and the area the pads ride in must be binding, if the pistons retract easily.
the caliper bracket where the pads sit, if that gets rusty under the clips, the pad will hang,
the caliper slides, also have to move freely.

be happy the dealer looked at the inner pad, and found it was very thin, you could have smoked your rotors too.

(i've done thousands of brake jobs over my career spinning wrenches)

chunktwo

iTrader: (2)

if that is the position they found the pads in - its looks like it is definitely binding.. the bottom of the pad in the picture already looks like it didnt move back out away from the rotor

Like you/someone mentioned - the weather conditions may have played a part -
if you are DIYing id check all the areas JSracer mentioned.

c3uo

I just took apart the drivers side (the picture was the passenger side). Tried to be slow and methodical in my disassembly. The lower slide pin was bound. Not badly, but enough to likely cause the issue. It was well lubed and clean once I freed it up. I expect that the soft driving and hybrid generator braking led towards the brakes not being used much so the slide pin was stuck. Understandable, but disappointing in such a new low mileage vehicle. The OEM pads are Advics.

Any recommended replacements for low dust and good performance? Akebono, Advics, or Raybestos Element 3 are the ones I'm looking at....

ericsan13

Is it still under warranty? Would the dealer make things right because the lower slide pin was bound when it shouldn't have been?

ukrkoz

The lower slide pin was bound.

That also explains, why pad appears to be worn out at the angle.
Your brakes hardware is RUSTED. Hope you replaced - and generously lubricated - all of it.
For pad wear like this, you either have caliper not sliding on guide pins or sticky caliper. Considering both sides did same, and they are on independent brake lines, chance of both calipers go bad same way is slim to none. So it must be rusted hardware.
You being a DIY type, I'd absolutely recommend to check on pins at least twice a year, while you rotate tires.
Also, keep in mind that for some reason, rear pads normally wear out ahead of the front ones, so check on them too.
Forget anything about "generator braking". Brakes are normal hydraulic brakes, same as on a non hybrid vehicles. Absolutely no difference. And I had mine replaced on 2 hybrids at around 50K miles, so you are not that much off. Though I know few hybrid owners that state they ran over 200K on original pads. Maybe.

ukrkoz

I do not like ceramic pads on Toyota rotors. They work great but tend to make rubbing noise at halt. I am semi met guy. yeah, some dust, but they are cost efficient, quiet and do great braking. Semi organics are dust nightmare though. I had ceramics on wife's RX and took them off due to rubbing noise. I had aftermarket rotors on said RX with ceramics and they did just fine. It's something in Toyota rotors causing this.
Brake job for RX is not expensive. Pads will be around $40 or so front end. Good quality pads. Plus about 20 min per side to swap them.

frazierwa

Several other users have reported that their disc brake pads last well over 50k so something is likely wrong. I'm surprised that the mechanic who inspected the brakes didn't offer an explanation since it will likely need more than 'just pads' to resolve the issue. It looks like there is some rust forming on the undercarriage so I'd make sure that the pins are really clean and appropriately lubricated. Also you might verify that the caliper seals are intact since corrosion on the cylinder or cylinder wall could cause the cylinder to require more force than normal to retract. In fact, I would recommend rebuilding the calipers so you can inspect the surfaces well. I think your intuition that the wear is "not normal" is correct.

JSracer

This is crap, in my opinion to toss this in the hybrid , it's a dead zone here. has nothing to do with specifics of a 450, its front pad wear uneven.
they could have put the 2 posts together, if the feeling was strong that a regular rx doesn't have front pads like these.

rant over.

c3uo

I took it to the dealer, and they tell me this is absolutely not covered by warranty, and likely caused by lack of maintenance. I asked them what maintenance I should have performed as nothing was shown on the Lexus Schedule as the vehicle is 3 years / 31,000 miles (I overstated the mileage above). TBH - not so impressed with Lexus right now. I tried to argue that even pad wear is normal friction and I would absolutely be on the hook for new pads, but this is clearly abnormal wear due to faulty components.

skidder

The slide pins on these ADVICS calipers are notorious for this. The only way to prevent it is maintenance. We have had this issue for a decade on Lexus products (our IS - especially rear is the worst).

We both live in Road Salt climates (your carriage looks as bad as a MN car corrosion wise). I got wise to this issue after talking with the service advisor and doing a search on this forum. Our local dealer now offers a "brake caliper service" that they do recommend about every 30k miles (2 years). It entails removing the slide pins, cleaning, and applying a lubricant (more on that later). For a non-DIY-er just do it: get stronger/safer braking, and potentially avoid buying a new caliper/pad set prematurely.

For a competent DIYer buy yourself a tube of Genuine Toyota Lithium Soap Based Grease "Rubber Grease" and clean/lubricate those pins. The tube is 100g of content (big tube of toothpaste) - enough to service 50 pins (about $20 from a dealer - toyota part: 0888701206). Don't use the wrong grease (it swells the boots and makes the problem worse), don't tear the rubber boot (obviously then dirt gets in), don't forget to 'burp' the boot (no air inside since that can cause a bind), and get the torque specs right (safety first). ALLDATA manuals will help get it right.

Recommendation: Lexus is a fantastic company in terms of customer service. If you've respectfully worked with your service advisor and they won't budge: You might be able to convince corporate this is your first timer learning and get some compensation. FWIT: Lexus Financial Services Platinum VSA covered caliper failure on our IS up to 8 years. Now I just DIY. (I just did the full brake job myself and after only about 20k miles and 3 years or so they were binding slightly again...)

On the BMW: Agreed, I also drive BMWs (and have for 15 years) and have never had this issue. *BUT, I've had plenty of other more expensive issues!...*