Lithium hybrid battery
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Lexus Test Driver
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From: MA
Lithium hybrid battery
Honda, Hyundai and Audi hybrids will start to use lithium batteries in their hybrid sometime this year. There is rumor that the 2012 Prius hybrid will be using Lithium batteries, anyone know when the RX450h will switch over to lithium?
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There must be a reason why Tesla currently is the only car mfr using lithium instead of NiMH batteries for their EV/hybrid cars. I've read that while Li is more compact and charges quicker, there are issues for larger applications, such as overheating & possible combustion, which is not a good thing for cars. Reminds me of the Dell laptop battery fiasco a few yrs ago. Knowing how Toyota has such a huge target on their back, I'm sure they'll take their time before using Li batteries in their EV/hybrid cars . . .
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From: MA
Lithium batteries require a cooling system in addtion to vent cooling. Cost use to be the main reason why most car manufacturers do not use Lithium, but the cost of lithium batteries is dropping to the point where it is reasonable to use ina Hybrid vehicle.
In addition to Lithium beening more compact and charges quicker, it also has a high voltage per cell and hold a charge for much longer than NiMH batteries.
Toyota is developing their Lithium batteries with Panasonic, they are about 1 year behind when compare to Honda, Hyundai and Audi. I hoping they will switch the RX450h to Lithium batteries within 2-3 years.
In addition to Lithium beening more compact and charges quicker, it also has a high voltage per cell and hold a charge for much longer than NiMH batteries.
Toyota is developing their Lithium batteries with Panasonic, they are about 1 year behind when compare to Honda, Hyundai and Audi. I hoping they will switch the RX450h to Lithium batteries within 2-3 years.
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From: CA
Tesla isn't the only company using Lithium. Mercedes was actually the first to use this tech, i believe, in their new S400 Hybrid.
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...S/model-S400HV
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...S/model-S400HV
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From: GA
The nickle metal hydride types we have in our (h) models charge much faster and have a longer life span (more charge cycles) than the Lithium models and do not produce as much heat. Along with charging faster, it also depletes faster but the plus side is it offers more available power for the electric motors. That gets our (h) model RX's up to 295 hp and that's power you can feel
.This is a link to the Battery University http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...and_the_future
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From: MA
There are different batteries for different applications. I have Lithium Ion batteries in my Segway i2 that I've had for about 3 1/2 years now. They are good for a longer charge (I can go over 20 miles on the batteries) but there are downsides. If depleted fully, they take about 12 hours to recharge. They are essentially the same type you have in your laptop computers but much larger with better management systems.
The nickle metal hydride types we have in our (h) models charge much faster and have a longer life span (more charge cycles) than the Lithium models and do not produce as much heat. Along with charging faster, it also depletes faster but the plus side is it offers more available power for the electric motors. That gets our (h) model RX's up to 295 hp and that's power you can feel.
This is a link to the Battery University http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...and_the_future
The nickle metal hydride types we have in our (h) models charge much faster and have a longer life span (more charge cycles) than the Lithium models and do not produce as much heat. Along with charging faster, it also depletes faster but the plus side is it offers more available power for the electric motors. That gets our (h) model RX's up to 295 hp and that's power you can feel
.This is a link to the Battery University http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...and_the_future
http://www.streetdirectory.com/trave...vs_li_ion.html
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From: GA
That might be a old article as it did not compare NiMH batteries to Lithium. As far as I know, the new lithium batteries are suppose to last longer, more charging cycle, faster charge time, higher voltage, smaller and lighter, holds a charge longer and better cold weather performance. The Li battery does get hot when heavily use and cost is still a factor.
http://www.streetdirectory.com/trave...vs_li_ion.html
http://www.streetdirectory.com/trave...vs_li_ion.html
Having said that, technology is moving faster than we can find articles and print to discuss and theorize over. This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6GK3qdqv20 has had me drooling and wondering about when Lexus might start something in this direction. True the car in the film is a 'one' off concept car but what we're driving were once concept cars too. Think about it. Twin 'off the shelf existing turbines' mounted parallel (and the pair weighing less than an average person) in the car. One to power the computers and other electronics, and one to keep the batteries charged and powering the four electric motors (one for each wheel).
The durability of a jet engine is incredible. Basically it's one moving part, the shaft. No crankshaft pumping pistons up & down, valve trains, etc. Just think of all the moving internal parts and inertia you get rid of. Their design can be modified to run on everything from gas to diesel. You do have to have a filtering system to keep anything other than very light dust out of the fan or larger junk will destroy it fast. And they say they're having an issue with filtering out the natural noise and exhaust temps but they will overcome that in time.
Wouldn't something like that be wonderful in the foreseeable future ???
Last edited by Cruiter; Jan 26, 2011 at 12:32 PM. Reason: correction
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From: MA
As far as my own experience with Segway and from the link I had posted I'll stay with my own thoughts on the matter. They are dealing with much larger systems than the article you posted that deals primarily with computer and razor batteries.
Having said that, technology is moving faster than we can find articles and print to discuss and theorize over. This has had me drooling and wondering about when Lexus might start something in this direction. True the car in the film is a 'one' off concept car but what we're driving were once concept cars too. Think about it. Twin 'off the shelf existing turbines' mounted parallel (and the pair weighing less than an average person) in the car. One to power the computers and other electronics, and one to keep the batteries charged and powering the four electric motors (one for each wheel).
The durability of a jet engine is incredible. Basically it's one moving part, the shaft. No crankshaft pumping pistons up & down, valve trains, etc. Just think of all the moving internal parts and inertia you get rid of. Their design can be modified to run on everything from gas to diesel. You do have to have a filtering system to keep anything other than very light dust out of the fan or larger junk will destroy it fast. And they say they're having an issue with filtering out the natural noise and exhaust temps but they will overcome that in time.
Wouldn't something like that be wonderful in the foreseeable future ???
Having said that, technology is moving faster than we can find articles and print to discuss and theorize over. This has had me drooling and wondering about when Lexus might start something in this direction. True the car in the film is a 'one' off concept car but what we're driving were once concept cars too. Think about it. Twin 'off the shelf existing turbines' mounted parallel (and the pair weighing less than an average person) in the car. One to power the computers and other electronics, and one to keep the batteries charged and powering the four electric motors (one for each wheel).
The durability of a jet engine is incredible. Basically it's one moving part, the shaft. No crankshaft pumping pistons up & down, valve trains, etc. Just think of all the moving internal parts and inertia you get rid of. Their design can be modified to run on everything from gas to diesel. You do have to have a filtering system to keep anything other than very light dust out of the fan or larger junk will destroy it fast. And they say they're having an issue with filtering out the natural noise and exhaust temps but they will overcome that in time.
Wouldn't something like that be wonderful in the foreseeable future ???
Rocket cars would be a good idea, but the gas mileage will be terrible. Maybe they can make a hybrid rocket car
Last edited by The X Men; Jan 26, 2011 at 12:54 PM.
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From: GA
Segway is a very good example, it use Li battery because of the lighter weight, smaller in size, give it longer range and shorter charge time. A battery pack in a hybrid really never get totally depleted, the battery management system will not allow that, therefore, Li batteries are the perfect application for modern day hybrid vehicles. The 2012 Prius is rumor to have Li battery, my guess is that in 5-10, all hybrids on the market will use Li batteries. All the new EV on the market now are using Li batteries for the same reason the Segway is using them, longer run time and lighter weight.
Rocket cars would be a good idea, but the gas mileage will be terrible. Maybe they can make a hybrid rocket car
Rocket cars would be a good idea, but the gas mileage will be terrible. Maybe they can make a hybrid rocket car
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Lexus Test Driver
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From: MA
I use to work at a plant that use two GE turbine engine for back up electic power. This is a similar concept but in a smaller scale. Cars like this Jag might never be cost effective as far as up front cost and operating cost. How much is a gallon of Jet fuel these days and how much will it cost to tune up or replace one of those micro turbine? Its a nice concept though much like the Chevy Volt except the Volt use a ICE to charge the batteries. One thing for sure, the video said the Jag had a 70 mile cruising range on battery, you can bet it has lithium battery
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From: GA
Just saw the video, could not see it in the last post because I was at work, very interesting stuff.
I use to work at a plant that use two GE turbine engine for back up electic power. This is a similar concept but in a smaller scale. Cars like this Jag might never be cost effective as far as up front cost and operating cost. How much is a gallon of Jet fuel these days and how much will it cost to tune up or replace one of those micro turbine? Its a nice concept though much like the Chevy Volt except the Volt use a ICE to charge the batteries. One thing for sure, the video said the Jag had a 70 mile cruising range on battery, you can bet it has lithium battery
I use to work at a plant that use two GE turbine engine for back up electic power. This is a similar concept but in a smaller scale. Cars like this Jag might never be cost effective as far as up front cost and operating cost. How much is a gallon of Jet fuel these days and how much will it cost to tune up or replace one of those micro turbine? Its a nice concept though much like the Chevy Volt except the Volt use a ICE to charge the batteries. One thing for sure, the video said the Jag had a 70 mile cruising range on battery, you can bet it has lithium battery
Tune ups in the normal sense don't exist. If a seal or ignitor needed replacing or something in an electronic control but very little maintenance like we're used to.
Last edited by Cruiter; Jan 27, 2011 at 02:41 PM. Reason: addition
Thread Starter
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From: MA
One of the videos indicated they were off the shelf engines (generic design) used for all sorts of small industrial applications. By their nature the expense of a large number (production line for car use) to simply turn generators could be very inexpensive compared to today's car engines. Smaller ones have been in use for over two decades to model airplane hobbyists (same concept just smaller). http://www.jetcentral.com.mx/english/ Plus you wouldn't need a transmission if the drive wheels were electric motors like the volt. I'm thinking a cost reduction. And they can be set to run on gas.
Tune ups in the normal sense don't exist. If a seal or ignitor needed replacing or something in an electronic control but very little maintenance like we're used to.
Tune ups in the normal sense don't exist. If a seal or ignitor needed replacing or something in an electronic control but very little maintenance like we're used to.
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