If you want a little history, check out pricing on 1st gen Toyota Prius. Or, better yet, check out pricing on 2nd Gen Toyota Prius WITHOUT a clear title (IOW, no factory warranty) and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Battery Technology and costs will come down, as they do with everything else. And, it will be only a matter of time that replacement or a battery rebuild will be offered for Hybrids. So, saying that a future proof vehicle has no resale value is IMHO non-sense. If anything, they will hold there value more. Just checking out anything that is a used Hybrid in the marketplace.

Of course, if a salesperson (who works on commision) works for a dealer, who sells only NON hybrid vehicles, something about Hybrid vehicles having no resale value, that alone should tell you what kind of "Knowledge" that person has about vehicle marketplace.

 

I think the jury is still out. I am just coming from the perspective of a used car.

Take a 2000 Prius with 72,000 miles on the clock. Out of warranty, it has a bluebook of around $10k.

The person looking to buy this car will most likely, or should be concerned that they will have to replace the batteries and motors soon. So for a $10k car, I am not willing to dump $3-4k or more on batteries and motors and then on top have to deal with the engine stuff. This is my point.

A lexus Hybrid will be worth $20k or less in 3-5 years. I doubt folks will want to pay Lexus prices when it is out of warranty.

I am just trying to be realistic. An out of warranty 400h, batteries, motors, regular engine maintenance, transmissions, etc. and your only recourse will be the dealer as no one else will or can work on them.


I see your point, I just don't drink the KoolAid.

 

Actuually, the Lexus hybrid system is under warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles, so need to worry about the battery after the main warranty expires in 4 years/50,000 miles.

Also, the first generation, 1997 Prius hybrids are still going strong with many now comming in with 200,000+ miles and no battery changes. It is widely accepted in the industry now that the hybrid batteries will last the life of the vehicle (or at least 300,000) with no problems.

While resale of hybrids may be a turnoff for many who are not up to speed on the technology, those in the know will not shy away from these cars. Also, as MadLor noted, battery costs will plummet in comming years and replacement costs will not be a major issue.

In any case, resale is not an issue for me as I plan to keep the vehicle for 10+ years. I'll be sure to post my experiences with the battery in 10 years!

 

OK you sold me. I had know idea batteries were lasting that long. Incredible. I did a search and found that batteries in all hyrbrids are lasting 150-200k easy.

 

Cool!! Believe me, I did a lot of research on hybrid techology before plunking down some serious coin on the RX400h, and I have been following the battery issue for several years now. After doing the research, I'm convinced the hybrid battery system will be a long lasting system, and Lexus is backing it with the 100K warranty.

And now that you're sold on the hybrid battery, I've got a really nice, low mileage bridge that I'm selling....

 

While it is true, many of the components on the Lexus Hybrid will be difficult for the average garage or do it yourselfer to repair, alot of the basic elements that will require service are indeed run of the mill... Brake pads, discs, filters, plugs, shocks etc.

The rest of your concerns about longevity simply do not hold true either. Engine, transmission, electronics etc.. let's face it, this isn't your run of the mill GM that is "slapped" together. If you have ever had experience with European products, you will have experienced reliability. The little stuff simply doesn't break, let alone engine or transmission problems.

As for battery technology, I do believe that when we cross that bridge (exhausted batteries) we will come across battery suppliers who are will to take in a trade in for a rebuilt battery. They are simply brand new, other than the housing or case which holds everything together. Also, there will be the upgrade ability factor as well. NiMH and LiON hold similar charging cycles and it may very well be possible when the day comes to replace the NiMH cells, one can substitute the cells with LiON or perhaps newer technology.

Cheers,

MadloR

 

I bought the hybrid and I love it. It uses half the gas as my other car, an Acura RL, in city driving. In the summer, it let me enjoy the A/C when stopping without using any gas (The engine will come on after about 15 to 20 minutes to recharge the battery). Compare to the RX330 (I haven't driven a RX350 yet), the hydrid is much stronger when passing and there is no hesitation or jerking with transmission kickdown. However, if the weather is very cold or if your driving is mostly on freeway, particularly at very high speed, there is little chance for the gas engine to shut off and you will not get the maximum benefits of buying a hybrid.

 

While it's true you won't benefit as much from the Hybrid Synergy drive on the highway, I have noticed that if you are in freeway traffic where the speed is in the 45-60 mph range I do find the Battery "assist" mode does help with the fuel mileage. If you are not greedy with your right foot there are many occasions where the battery power is assisting the front electric motor and supply some "help" to the overall drivetrain propulsion. As a benefit, the motor is using less fuel and they Synergy Drive display is showing some healthy mpg readings in the 33 - 44 mpg range.

Just my 0.02 worth.

Cheers,

MadloR

 

You'll benefit when you floor it to make a swift lane change

 

Not true. The hybrid is neither faster nor has better resale.

Acceleration: The 3.5L is 270hp vs. 268hp on the hybrid. 0-60 times are identical. Take an RX350 for a spin. It's quite fast. The midrange and highway passing is very good too. Significantly improved from the RX330.

Resale: With the fast changing hybrid technology that is relatively new, the 400h may be outdated in just a few years which will hurt it's resale a lot more. For example, someone mentioned that there is new batteries and technology in the new Prius coming out that will increase it's fuel economy significantly(by 50-100%!). When technology like this finds it's way into the future RX hybrid, the resale on the current 400h will be hurt significantly.

Fuel Economy: Hybrids fuel economy tend to be a bit more inflated than the gasoline versions. I would be willing to bet there is no difference on the highway between the two. I have gotten 25mpg on my AWD RX350. That was driving at 80mph too. There is someone in the RX350 section who achieved 27mpg on the highway. The only place you win with a hybrid is city driving.

I also wanted to mention that if you plan on keeping your car very long term, don't forget the cost of replacing those expensive batteries at some point after the warranty expires.

Kan-O-Z

 

agreed.. if u do 100% highway driving.. i think 350 is way to go..
but i see in LA traffic all day.. and i love it when i still get 28mpg as opposed to say.. 19mpg on the 350..
but again.. if you do a LOT of FAST freeway driving.. 70%+, then 400h is not THAT much beneficial as opposed to the 350.. but low RPM pick-up when passing, etc.. 400h wins hands down.. besides.. 400H doesn't cost THAT much more than a 350.. maybe $2k~3k

 

RX350 getting 25mpg @ 80 mph? Maybe with a tailwind... a very strong one

 

I still don't agree that the 400h wins hand down in passing. Have you driven an RX350? I had the opportunity to drive an RX400h while XM radio was being installed in my RX350. The 400h did not feel any more powerful than the 350 and I did put the pedal down a few times. If anything it felt rougher. The engine and/or cvt felt rougher and louder under heavy throttle as compared to the RX350. Another difference was the springs on the 400h felt a bit stiffer giving it a bit of a stiffer ride.

Kan-O-Z

 

Correction, it was approximately 75mph as the speed limit is 65mph and everyone tends to go over that by approximately 10mph. This is the average mpg reported by the info screen.

Kan-O-Z

 

This is incorrect. Though similar hp figures, the hybrid offers instant torque, therefore the AWD variants put the hybird at 0 - 60 in 6.9 seconds and the non hybrid at 7.4 seconds.