Lexus debuts 2016 GS F
CL Community Team
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 30,277
Likes: 354
From: Canada
The more I look at it, I think even the exterior design of this car may not be ideal M5/E63 competitor, most of those buyers are not young to say the least, and this grille may be a little extreme ..... and to me the front does not flow well with the rest of the car ...
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 1
From: California
couple of things
i actually think lexus entered the competition against m and amg VERY well. i think the isf was a great project and execution, even though it didn't get to m level in the beginning. but i love how they get into the game. then the lfa, who can even deny its impact? even the rcf i think is a great addition. so imho up till that point it has been great on the f name / badge.
to me the spec of the gsf is actually pretty good. i think it will be a great fun car to drive. however, i just don't see it being enough to go against the current m5 and e63. it will be a wonderful car (price considered) compared to the m3 and 550i imho, i think the gsf will walk away clean from those. so yes i think it's a wonderful car. but to me is it wonderful enough to carry the gsf badge? no.
people can argue all day "it's just a badge" but i will laugh all day "it's THE badge". bmw could have gone without m and mb without amg, but they wouldn't have been so successful in their image and status. when it comes to luxury market, it's all about the badge and status.
just doing power to weight ratio and time around a course sure is an indication, but when i think about it, it can get silly because m3/4 and c63 of course will likely win over larger heavier cars, even when those have more power. so i guess with the same arguments here, it's like saying m3/4 and c63 are far superior cars over their larger brothers. i am not sure about that. similarly with the gsf and how people keep saying it's silly to compare to m5? i honestly think it will go very well against m3.
and you know what? it might not bad a bad thing at all? back in 1998, lexus put up a mid-size sedan with more power and faster than the bmw m3. that was a WONDERFUL win. they called it gs400
i actually think lexus entered the competition against m and amg VERY well. i think the isf was a great project and execution, even though it didn't get to m level in the beginning. but i love how they get into the game. then the lfa, who can even deny its impact? even the rcf i think is a great addition. so imho up till that point it has been great on the f name / badge.
to me the spec of the gsf is actually pretty good. i think it will be a great fun car to drive. however, i just don't see it being enough to go against the current m5 and e63. it will be a wonderful car (price considered) compared to the m3 and 550i imho, i think the gsf will walk away clean from those. so yes i think it's a wonderful car. but to me is it wonderful enough to carry the gsf badge? no.
people can argue all day "it's just a badge" but i will laugh all day "it's THE badge". bmw could have gone without m and mb without amg, but they wouldn't have been so successful in their image and status. when it comes to luxury market, it's all about the badge and status.
just doing power to weight ratio and time around a course sure is an indication, but when i think about it, it can get silly because m3/4 and c63 of course will likely win over larger heavier cars, even when those have more power. so i guess with the same arguments here, it's like saying m3/4 and c63 are far superior cars over their larger brothers. i am not sure about that. similarly with the gsf and how people keep saying it's silly to compare to m5? i honestly think it will go very well against m3.
and you know what? it might not bad a bad thing at all? back in 1998, lexus put up a mid-size sedan with more power and faster than the bmw m3. that was a WONDERFUL win. they called it gs400
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,238
Likes: 274
The more I look at it, I think even the exterior design of this car may not be ideal M5/E63 competitor, most of those buyers are not young to say the least, and this grille may be a little extreme ..... and to me the front does not flow well with the rest of the car ...
CL Community Team
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 30,277
Likes: 354
From: Canada
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 781
Likes: 3
From: tx
couple of things
i actually think lexus entered the competition against m and amg VERY well. i think the isf was a great project and execution, even though it didn't get to m level in the beginning. but i love how they get into the game. then the lfa, who can even deny its impact? even the rcf i think is a great addition. so imho up till that point it has been great on the f name / badge.
to me the spec of the gsf is actually pretty good. i think it will be a great fun car to drive. however, i just don't see it being enough to go against the current m5 and e63. it will be a wonderful car (price considered) compared to the m3 and 550i imho, i think the gsf will walk away clean from those. so yes i think it's a wonderful car. but to me is it wonderful enough to carry the gsf badge? no.
people can argue all day "it's just a badge" but i will laugh all day "it's THE badge". bmw could have gone without m and mb without amg, but they wouldn't have been so successful in their image and status. when it comes to luxury market, it's all about the badge and status.
just doing power to weight ratio and time around a course sure is an indication, but when i think about it, it can get silly because m3/4 and c63 of course will likely win over larger heavier cars, even when those have more power. so i guess with the same arguments here, it's like saying m3/4 and c63 are far superior cars over their larger brothers. i am not sure about that. similarly with the gsf and how people keep saying it's silly to compare to m5? i honestly think it will go very well against m3.
and you know what? it might not bad a bad thing at all? back in 1998, lexus put up a mid-size sedan with more power and faster than the bmw m3. that was a WONDERFUL win. they called it gs400
i actually think lexus entered the competition against m and amg VERY well. i think the isf was a great project and execution, even though it didn't get to m level in the beginning. but i love how they get into the game. then the lfa, who can even deny its impact? even the rcf i think is a great addition. so imho up till that point it has been great on the f name / badge.
to me the spec of the gsf is actually pretty good. i think it will be a great fun car to drive. however, i just don't see it being enough to go against the current m5 and e63. it will be a wonderful car (price considered) compared to the m3 and 550i imho, i think the gsf will walk away clean from those. so yes i think it's a wonderful car. but to me is it wonderful enough to carry the gsf badge? no.
people can argue all day "it's just a badge" but i will laugh all day "it's THE badge". bmw could have gone without m and mb without amg, but they wouldn't have been so successful in their image and status. when it comes to luxury market, it's all about the badge and status.
just doing power to weight ratio and time around a course sure is an indication, but when i think about it, it can get silly because m3/4 and c63 of course will likely win over larger heavier cars, even when those have more power. so i guess with the same arguments here, it's like saying m3/4 and c63 are far superior cars over their larger brothers. i am not sure about that. similarly with the gsf and how people keep saying it's silly to compare to m5? i honestly think it will go very well against m3.
and you know what? it might not bad a bad thing at all? back in 1998, lexus put up a mid-size sedan with more power and faster than the bmw m3. that was a WONDERFUL win. they called it gs400
But talking about image and badge (even in this segment) may get you labeled as juvenile and insecure.
CL Community Team
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 30,277
Likes: 354
From: Canada
Most people who actually write the cheques for these high end cars instead of just talking about it on the Internet can be juvenile and insecure too , most buy them as a status symbol and bragging rights being more important than anything . Luxury products are meant to be status symbols and bragging, that's the main selling points...
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,215
Likes: 250
From: New York
One thing is to compare GSF to M5 and E63amg which obviously it falls short, yet those cars are already at the very end of their life cycle.
The new CTS-V is the most direct competitor in many ways.
Just like Lexus F, Cadillac V brand is very new and trying to gain traction against M and Amg.
Unlike Lexus, Cadillac has set the bar at a new level and should prove superior to M5 and E63 in every performance aspect.
It completely embarasses the GSF, and CTS chassis is just as great especially with the next Gen Magneride suspension.
Pricing on CTS-V will be way below M5 and E63 so where does this leave GSF?
The new CTS-V is the most direct competitor in many ways.
Just like Lexus F, Cadillac V brand is very new and trying to gain traction against M and Amg.
Unlike Lexus, Cadillac has set the bar at a new level and should prove superior to M5 and E63 in every performance aspect.
It completely embarasses the GSF, and CTS chassis is just as great especially with the next Gen Magneride suspension.
Pricing on CTS-V will be way below M5 and E63 so where does this leave GSF?
CL Community Team
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 30,277
Likes: 354
From: Canada
Diehard Lexus fans waiting for V8 4GS will buy it plus it will be reliable and of superior build quality.
Caddy is just a crappy American car made by bailed out manufacturer not worth considering nomatter what
... just like some diehard German car fans think of anything non German 
If priced right, it should sell well at least initially, plus this car should have a short run anyway since this will be the 4th model year already for the 4GS when this GS F is available for sale ...
Caddy is just a crappy American car made by bailed out manufacturer not worth considering nomatter what
... just like some diehard German car fans think of anything non German If priced right, it should sell well at least initially, plus this car should have a short run anyway since this will be the 4th model year already for the 4GS when this GS F is available for sale ...
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,238
Likes: 274
GS is pretty booring these days, right up there with ES... full spindle will suit it nicely, i doubt that F-Sport will look that much difference, similar to RC-F and RC F-Sport, there will be big differences for us who follow it, but for regular folks F-Sport will have full spindle and look very similar.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 487
Likes: 12
From: WI
couple of things
i actually think lexus entered the competition against m and amg VERY well. i think the isf was a great project and execution, even though it didn't get to m level in the beginning. but i love how they get into the game. then the lfa, who can even deny its impact? even the rcf i think is a great addition. so imho up till that point it has been great on the f name / badge.
to me the spec of the gsf is actually pretty good. i think it will be a great fun car to drive. however, i just don't see it being enough to go against the current m5 and e63. it will be a wonderful car (price considered) compared to the m3 and 550i imho, i think the gsf will walk away clean from those. so yes i think it's a wonderful car. but to me is it wonderful enough to carry the gsf badge? no.
people can argue all day "it's just a badge" but i will laugh all day "it's THE badge". bmw could have gone without m and mb without amg, but they wouldn't have been so successful in their image and status. when it comes to luxury market, it's all about the badge and status.
just doing power to weight ratio and time around a course sure is an indication, but when i think about it, it can get silly because m3/4 and c63 of course will likely win over larger heavier cars, even when those have more power. so i guess with the same arguments here, it's like saying m3/4 and c63 are far superior cars over their larger brothers. i am not sure about that. similarly with the gsf and how people keep saying it's silly to compare to m5? i honestly think it will go very well against m3.
and you know what? it might not bad a bad thing at all? back in 1998, lexus put up a mid-size sedan with more power and faster than the bmw m3. that was a WONDERFUL win. they called it gs400
i actually think lexus entered the competition against m and amg VERY well. i think the isf was a great project and execution, even though it didn't get to m level in the beginning. but i love how they get into the game. then the lfa, who can even deny its impact? even the rcf i think is a great addition. so imho up till that point it has been great on the f name / badge.
to me the spec of the gsf is actually pretty good. i think it will be a great fun car to drive. however, i just don't see it being enough to go against the current m5 and e63. it will be a wonderful car (price considered) compared to the m3 and 550i imho, i think the gsf will walk away clean from those. so yes i think it's a wonderful car. but to me is it wonderful enough to carry the gsf badge? no.
people can argue all day "it's just a badge" but i will laugh all day "it's THE badge". bmw could have gone without m and mb without amg, but they wouldn't have been so successful in their image and status. when it comes to luxury market, it's all about the badge and status.
just doing power to weight ratio and time around a course sure is an indication, but when i think about it, it can get silly because m3/4 and c63 of course will likely win over larger heavier cars, even when those have more power. so i guess with the same arguments here, it's like saying m3/4 and c63 are far superior cars over their larger brothers. i am not sure about that. similarly with the gsf and how people keep saying it's silly to compare to m5? i honestly think it will go very well against m3.
and you know what? it might not bad a bad thing at all? back in 1998, lexus put up a mid-size sedan with more power and faster than the bmw m3. that was a WONDERFUL win. they called it gs400
Henry has just about summed it up, you can't deny how disappointing the GSF is for us 2nd gen GS400/430 owners. We don't want just want a good GS, but rather a real GSF that is asserting in the eyes of high performance competition. So far they won't even blink over this one.
It strengthens your arguments and points in my mind. I am an infant compared to you guys, having got into my first Lexus in 2013. Still in high school in 98.
couple of things
i actually think lexus entered the competition against m and amg VERY well. i think the isf was a great project and execution, even though it didn't get to m level in the beginning. but i love how they get into the game. then the lfa, who can even deny its impact? even the rcf i think is a great addition. so imho up till that point it has been great on the f name / badge.
to me the spec of the gsf is actually pretty good. i think it will be a great fun car to drive. however, i just don't see it being enough to go against the current m5 and e63. it will be a wonderful car (price considered) compared to the m3 and 550i imho, i think the gsf will walk away clean from those. so yes i think it's a wonderful car. but to me is it wonderful enough to carry the gsf badge? no.
people can argue all day "it's just a badge" but i will laugh all day "it's THE badge". bmw could have gone without m and mb without amg, but they wouldn't have been so successful in their image and status. when it comes to luxury market, it's all about the badge and status.
just doing power to weight ratio and time around a course sure is an indication, but when i think about it, it can get silly because m3/4 and c63 of course will likely win over larger heavier cars, even when those have more power. so i guess with the same arguments here, it's like saying m3/4 and c63 are far superior cars over their larger brothers. i am not sure about that. similarly with the gsf and how people keep saying it's silly to compare to m5? i honestly think it will go very well against m3.
and you know what? it might not bad a bad thing at all? back in 1998, lexus put up a mid-size sedan with more power and faster than the bmw m3. that was a WONDERFUL win. they called it gs400
i actually think lexus entered the competition against m and amg VERY well. i think the isf was a great project and execution, even though it didn't get to m level in the beginning. but i love how they get into the game. then the lfa, who can even deny its impact? even the rcf i think is a great addition. so imho up till that point it has been great on the f name / badge.
to me the spec of the gsf is actually pretty good. i think it will be a great fun car to drive. however, i just don't see it being enough to go against the current m5 and e63. it will be a wonderful car (price considered) compared to the m3 and 550i imho, i think the gsf will walk away clean from those. so yes i think it's a wonderful car. but to me is it wonderful enough to carry the gsf badge? no.
people can argue all day "it's just a badge" but i will laugh all day "it's THE badge". bmw could have gone without m and mb without amg, but they wouldn't have been so successful in their image and status. when it comes to luxury market, it's all about the badge and status.
just doing power to weight ratio and time around a course sure is an indication, but when i think about it, it can get silly because m3/4 and c63 of course will likely win over larger heavier cars, even when those have more power. so i guess with the same arguments here, it's like saying m3/4 and c63 are far superior cars over their larger brothers. i am not sure about that. similarly with the gsf and how people keep saying it's silly to compare to m5? i honestly think it will go very well against m3.
and you know what? it might not bad a bad thing at all? back in 1998, lexus put up a mid-size sedan with more power and faster than the bmw m3. that was a WONDERFUL win. they called it gs400
Now the GS is back in the game, i wonder what Lexus has in mind to compete against the 4 door coupe segment.