Need Help - Lexus says its fine! Does your car do this?
10-07-17, 10:00 AM
#31
Lexus Test Driver
Purchased a 2013 GS350, non Fsport, non Luxury with 39k miles on it, CPO'ed (or L-certified.) Same issue as reported here the past 21k miles driven.
- Changed out the tires to Michelin Pilot Super Sports, stock sizes on stock wheels = Pulls to the right and susceptible to road imperfections.
- Did an alignment at a race shop = Pulls to the right and susceptible to road imperfections.
If the road crowns to the left, it will pull to the left, but definitely not as bad as pulling to the right when the road crowns right.
Checked everything, LCA bushings, mounts, brake dragging, out of round wheels/tires, nothing was amiss.
I ended up with the same conclusion, this car is just sensitive to road imperfections and crowning of the road and it favors the right side pull more.
- Changed out the tires to Michelin Pilot Super Sports, stock sizes on stock wheels = Pulls to the right and susceptible to road imperfections.
- Did an alignment at a race shop = Pulls to the right and susceptible to road imperfections.
If the road crowns to the left, it will pull to the left, but definitely not as bad as pulling to the right when the road crowns right.
Checked everything, LCA bushings, mounts, brake dragging, out of round wheels/tires, nothing was amiss.
I ended up with the same conclusion, this car is just sensitive to road imperfections and crowning of the road and it favors the right side pull more.
10-07-17, 09:26 PM
#32
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Absolutely. My car has two problems with the steering that seem related.
1. If I loosen my grip on the steering wheel at any speed, it drifts slowly to the right instead of heading straight down the road.
2. 95% of the time my steering returns out to the proper default position when I loosen my grip on the wheel. However, at seemingly random times, when driving at low speeds, it tries to default to a 30 to 45 degree turn to the right. When this happens, it feels like the default position of the wheel changed to a 30 to 45 degree right turn. I then straighten the wheel (against the pull) and continue driving for a few seconds before it goes back to normal.
I tried replacing all 4 tires coupled with an alignment at the dealership, but that did not solve either issue. Any ideas on what root cause might be?
1. If I loosen my grip on the steering wheel at any speed, it drifts slowly to the right instead of heading straight down the road.
2. 95% of the time my steering returns out to the proper default position when I loosen my grip on the wheel. However, at seemingly random times, when driving at low speeds, it tries to default to a 30 to 45 degree turn to the right. When this happens, it feels like the default position of the wheel changed to a 30 to 45 degree right turn. I then straighten the wheel (against the pull) and continue driving for a few seconds before it goes back to normal.
I tried replacing all 4 tires coupled with an alignment at the dealership, but that did not solve either issue. Any ideas on what root cause might be?
10-07-17, 09:32 PM
#33
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My friend at BMW has not been able to see my car yet.
I have a friend who works at a firestone so he wanted to see the alignment and said he could fix it for free. So.....
I go to firestone. He feeds me some bull that he thinks its the camber. That before his alignment it was in spec but far apart. That he brought it closer and now the problem is gone.
Well as soon as I pull out the lot. Wheel turns to the right.
I also had him rotate the tires to be sure also.
So the alignment is not the problem.
I am posting another video to show you all the road is flat.
I have a friend who works at a firestone so he wanted to see the alignment and said he could fix it for free. So.....
I go to firestone. He feeds me some bull that he thinks its the camber. That before his alignment it was in spec but far apart. That he brought it closer and now the problem is gone.
Well as soon as I pull out the lot. Wheel turns to the right.
I also had him rotate the tires to be sure also.
So the alignment is not the problem.
I am posting another video to show you all the road is flat.
10-07-17, 09:33 PM
#34
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10-08-17, 07:19 AM
#35
Lexus Champion
Mine definitely does not do that.
10-08-17, 09:08 AM
#36
Mine doesn't do that on a flat road, but if the road is even slightly crowned or rough, it will go right (or left) immediately like that.
The dealership(s) all test driven and stated the whole thing is normal. I have learned to live with it since there is absolutely no help from the dealerships. The car is still under warranty (Lcertified) but good luck getting them to begin replacing parts, ie steering rack, upper and lower control arms, wheel bearings, etc. If anyone else has any insight on how to get dealers to even acknowledge this is an issue, I would be thankful.
The dealership(s) all test driven and stated the whole thing is normal. I have learned to live with it since there is absolutely no help from the dealerships. The car is still under warranty (Lcertified) but good luck getting them to begin replacing parts, ie steering rack, upper and lower control arms, wheel bearings, etc. If anyone else has any insight on how to get dealers to even acknowledge this is an issue, I would be thankful.
10-08-17, 10:00 AM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
Questions (to determine if there is any association between the steering and application of the brakes):
1- Does the steering wheel movement you are experiencing always follow this scenario where it 'only' happens when the car's speed first starts dropping?
2- Did you apply any braking in the video when the steering wheel first started its move to the right? Or was braking only applied long after the steering wheel moved to the right?
Questions (other):
3- Have you had your motor mounts checked to see if they are torn and in need of replacing?
4- Is there a difference in steering effort between right and left turning?
5- Does the steering wheel move to the right when the drive mode is in Sport+ to make the steering feel heavier?
6- Was anything done to the car (accident, modifications, service, washing under hood, etc.) just prior to the steering starting this strange behavior?
7- Has Lexus performed any diagnostics on the EPS system, and if so - what did they do? If they did not perform any diagnostics on the EPS system, do you know why they didn't?
Before you even answer the above questions I'm presuming there is no association of the brakes with the steering wheel movement. But, it would be helpful to hear the answers to all the questions to help eliminate certain possibilities.
I think there is a problem with the electric power steering (EPS) - and in particular either the EPS's torque sensor that sends signals to the EPS's control computer to provide assistance to the steering rack, or with the EPS's control computer itself. For what it's worth - there should be a torque sensor zero point calibration that can be done by a Lexus technician, which is something that may be somewhat off point. Lexus also can check the signal voltage at the torque sensor and control computer to determine where the problem is. This should be made easy because the steering wheel reacts at such a slow ground speed.
10-21-17, 08:59 AM
#38
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Promblem solved! But, it's not a happy ending. After weeks of going back and forth with the dealership and paying for a new set of tires + an expensive alignment that didn't fix the problem. I wound up returning the car which was a recent CPO purchase. The only reason I was able to do this is that the title for the the trade in the contract is in my wife's name. This left outstanding paperwork that needed to be done to transfer the car to my name, so I could then give to Lexus. After all the problems, my wife ultimatley refused to sign the papers, thus making the contract invalid. So, I picked up "her" car and returned "their" car.
It's a lose, lose, lose situation. I'm out $1,400 on a new set of tires and alignment (not to mention all the time I invested) and the dealership is out on sale plus the overhead of the vehicle for the duration of all this. But, the biggest loser is the poor guy or girl that they wind selling this car to. It's not only dangerous vehicle to drive, it also has a fundamental flaw in it. I really hope they don't put it back on the lot, but suspect they will as a CPO.
Lessons learned include the following:
-Don't let the Lexus nameplate at the dealership fool you, they look nice, but operate just like any shady no-name dealer
-There is no easy way to contact Lexus corporate - don't even have an @lexuscares account
-Certified Pre Owned is worthless: "factory inspection" is done at and by the dealership after they purchase the vehicle from auction -- doesn't protect you from anything.
At this point I'm done with CPOs and Lexus. Currently looking into lease options on a new Cadillac VSport, BMW 540i or Mercedes e350. All very different cars, but also very nice cars in their own right. Thanks for all the responses to this thread. This seems like a wonderful community and has honestly been the only positive thing I've experience in my intro to Lexus. I wish everyone the best of luck!
It's a lose, lose, lose situation. I'm out $1,400 on a new set of tires and alignment (not to mention all the time I invested) and the dealership is out on sale plus the overhead of the vehicle for the duration of all this. But, the biggest loser is the poor guy or girl that they wind selling this car to. It's not only dangerous vehicle to drive, it also has a fundamental flaw in it. I really hope they don't put it back on the lot, but suspect they will as a CPO.
Lessons learned include the following:
-Don't let the Lexus nameplate at the dealership fool you, they look nice, but operate just like any shady no-name dealer
-There is no easy way to contact Lexus corporate - don't even have an @lexuscares account
-Certified Pre Owned is worthless: "factory inspection" is done at and by the dealership after they purchase the vehicle from auction -- doesn't protect you from anything.
At this point I'm done with CPOs and Lexus. Currently looking into lease options on a new Cadillac VSport, BMW 540i or Mercedes e350. All very different cars, but also very nice cars in their own right. Thanks for all the responses to this thread. This seems like a wonderful community and has honestly been the only positive thing I've experience in my intro to Lexus. I wish everyone the best of luck!
Last edited by mikeper; 10-21-17 at 10:33 AM.
10-21-17, 02:59 PM
#40
I feel like they want to help maximize used sales for their dealers but at this rate the CPO name will be worthless in a couple of years...
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