So I just picked up a 2020 ES loaner because my 2017 GS Fsport is having a routine maintenance done.

Holy god what a hunk of crap this ES is.

Prior to this current GS I was driving a 2015 all-wheel-drive GS 350, and before that in SC 400. All three of the previous Lexus vehicles I had driven all drove beautifully. Then the interiors were luxurious clean and elegant.

This ES might as well be an entry-level Toyota. I don’t see why people drive this car.

Luxury car, my ***.

 

Couldn’t agree more. Can’t stand the ES.

 

haha yup drove a 13 ES350 before getting the GS and while the ES is a great car in its own right ( 87 gas, quiet, super plush) - it does not compare to the GS

 

I'd agree with you that the ES is a very different vehicle from other Lexus and it definitely drives very differently than the GS. To me the ES is more Grandma Luxury, not Sport Luxury.

I'm just curious - could you elaborate in terms of specific things you didn't like? I have to admit, I don't think I could go to entry level Toyota in describing it - I was just in a friends new hybrid Corolla and forgot how tinny and cheap feeling some more entry level cars can feel. I also had a brand new RX-L that seemed to have a lot of options but even it seemed to miss some touches the GS has.

Before having the GS I looked at the ES and considered it - although they were pretty well optioned so I don't know if that made a difference. I also didn't understand at the time how differently they drove and how much more fun the GS is. I mean, I can't get in the GS and drive without smiling .

 

I am not sure why people always compared ES to GS. They are in fact totally different cars. I believe the earlier ES gens are closed related to JDM Toyota Windom also Camry (early gens) and later gens are close related to US spec Avalon now since most ES are now built in US

GS on the other hand start out as JDM Toyota Aristo (more of a 4 door Supra) in the early 2 generations and then became a fully LEXUS model in 3 gen (start sell as LEXUS in Japan). The 4GS gen are close related to JDM Toyota Crown also sell as a LEXUS GS in Japan

Toyota Crown offer two lines to choose from as Crown Majesta Royal saloon (luxury model) and Crown Athlete (sport model) just like the GS (Luxury model and F sport model global) vise versa

 

It is better than and "entry level" Toyota, but did seem like it was not a luxury car at all.. But what I meant really was, is is missing all of the luxuriousness I have become accustomed to with a lexus (two GS F-Sports and a SC 400). The fit and finish in the interior was fair. No soft touch interior pieces I noticed at least. The touch pad was buggy, I thought. Of course my experience was only a first impression. But I have driven NX,RX and LS and all of them were nicer to drive.

 

People are comparing the ES to GS because Lexus expects the ES to replace the GS, especially with the FSport treatment and similar looks.

I have both the ES and GS in the FSport trim in the family and in a fully loaded FSport trim, the ES is much better than the Premium and base models but there are still hard plastic in some places where the GS has none. GS just feels better to the touch overall.

Don't even compare the driving dynamics of the two. Every time I drive my GS, it makes me go and whenever I had to drive the ES, it made me want to switch cars. U can really tell the GS is really a driver's car where the ES is just a family hauler.

 

And this is exactly why there's no Lexus replacement model for us, in case we don't want to grow into the LS. I have a '16 450h (25k miles) and though it feels, sounds, goes and smells like new, I know that at some stage it will have to be replaced. What then?...

 

I would say the upcoming project with Toyota/Mazda, the new 6 that should be switching to a RWD platform and an I6 in a few year. Don't judge yet, I had a 2014 Mazda 6. Love it to death. Soft touch everywhere, responsive and crisp 6 speed auto, a chassis that handles and responses well to the drivers inputs, and an engine that is surprisingly smooth for a 4 cyl. The 2019+ elevates that to another level. If the new 6 is RWD, has a power I6 engine, and has that luxury qualities as the 19+ 6s, I wouldn't hesitate to replace my GS with a RWD 6.

 

you got a unicorn there with a 16 450h, i thought about it but couldn't justify spending 10k more for it when ordering my 18. hopefully by the time its time to replace there is something to replace it with. I've already test driven the LS its too big for me, and IS is too small, ES like everyone else said is just pure isolation in the cabin and the finish is entry level lux quality and im not looking to downgrade

 

I also had a 2020 ES loaner and I was not impressed. Nothing about it compared favorably to my 2013 GS except for the new safety and tech features. If Toyota/Lexus actually think GS buyers are going to buy ESs now that they've killed the GS, they have something wrong with them. Lexus has basically removed the only reason I would have to buy another Lexus. Having said that I wouldn't mind an RCF, LC500, GX or LS but none of those fill the spot the GS had and the IS is not a good replacement either. It's too cramped.

 

We are in the minority here as they sell many more ES models then the GS.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/lexus-us-sales-figures/

Scroll towards the bottom and click the GS and ES sales numbers to see why the GS was discontinued.

 

Yea the Car ppl buy more sucks. lol!

 

Camrys and Corollas each sell almost 10 times more than the ES per year so they must be 10 times better. I'll have to get one of those when I get rid of me GS.

 

I don't think anybody is arguing that there is no financial reason for them to discontinue the GS but if they think GS buyers are ES buyers I think they're mistaken. The venn diagram of ES & GS buyers only has a slim overlap IMO.

It's hard to say if Lexus' lack of updating the GS led to bad sales or if bad sales led to them not wantint to update it but from my perspective it seems like a lot of GS potential buyers wanted any excuse to get a Lexus sporty sedan but Lexus never even tried to woo them away from BMW, Audi & even now Hyundai/Kia/Genesis after the 2013 model.