@plex just a heads up that the GS200t is RWD only. I know the OP was looking for AWD so it might be a deal-breaker for him...not sure if that's a concern for you.

 

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DefaultMy Infiniti just passed 21 years (2000MY) and I've owned it for roughly 17 of those years. To me, Infiniti's heydays were the early and mid-2000s - maybe a little past 2010. Their build quality, while probably not up to Lexus was still good, and the cars were fun to drive, and their reliability was good. My plan for the longest time was to get another Infiniti when it was time - likely the M, which became the Q70 and was probably the closest thing in terms of size to the GS. I just realized how gutted the Infiniti car lineup is - 1 sedan, 1 coupe....wow.

I had a Q50 rental for a week exactly a year ago. I think it had 7 or 8000 miles on it. I think it was RWD, not AWD but I'm not 100% sure on that. The car looks great - there are probably even some things I like about it's design better than the GS (it took a little time for the front of the '16+ GS to grow on me). The interior was nice enough, I don't think it had quite the attention to detail / materials Lexus has but it wasn't bad.

I have three primary issues with Infiniti.

1) The dealer experience is spotty at best. While I don't think the Lexus dealership experience is quite what it used to be, Infiniti has lots of variation. The dealer I was shopping at near Tysons, VA years ago had some of the rudest sales staff I've ever encountered. I can't even imagine what their service staff were like. My car eventually came from the dealer in Cherry Hill, NJ who was good to work with. I ended up getting it serviced at the dealer in Rockville, MD who was AWESOME. My service advisor there is still one of the best I've ever encountered, I don't feel like he ever bull****ted me or tried to get me to do things that weren't necessary and he answered every question I ever had with a pleasant tone and a smile (and I ask lots of questions). That dealership building was relatively new and the amenities were fine, nothing spectacular but good. While the car was still under warranty/CPO I moved to Oregon. The issues started at the very first visit. The dealer here is probably the single biggest reason I will likely never own another Infiniti in my life. If I lived in a place where there was more than one I might consider it. The staff was rude and every time I had to fight for a loaner (Inifiiti's rule at the time was if they were going to have your car more than two hours you got a loaner - no questions - I had to bring up calling corporate multiple times which I really didn't want to do). They also own the Kia dealer and the professionalism and treatment by the service staff seemed much more Kia, much less luxury car company. At the time, the building was older and all the furniture and everything in the place just seemed sad and worn out. That was fixed with their new building a few years later but the staff were still almost always bad. On the couple rare occasions I had a good/great person, they were never there for more than one visit.

2) Infiniti's rankings started to slide and were near the bottom for a number of years - often below the germans and the brits. How is that even possible? Infiniti seems to bounce around a lot, in 2018 for instance they got some decent ratings again. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence and couple that with the dealer issues and I just won't go there.

3) In particular with the Q50 the biggest issue that stood out to me was the cars handling. With wet roads here in the pacific northwest, I swear I could hardly take off without the back end sliding around. I do have a bit of a heavy foot but it was just crazy how careful it seemed like I had to be. I checked the tires, thinking maybe they were just worn and they didn't look bad - not new, but not bad. Settings/options on the car seemed to be set correctly. On a positive note, I didn't seem to notice the "disconnected feel" of the steering that the early years seemed to have.

INRE to the Genesis, I looked at those a tiny bit while I was shopping for the GS. I've pretty much gotten over my issue with Hyundai's product reliability - I think it takes a while for those of us who remember their first entry into the US market. Shortly after I got my GS I was stopped at a light right next to the front end of a brand new Genesis (paper tag in the window) where I could clearly see the area where the bumper/fender/headlights all come together and the fit and finish was not what I would expect from a luxury car. The panel gaps were uneven and trim that should have lined up was off enough to be noticeable. Maybe they've fixed these things and I'm sure they'll try and probably get there. I have to admit, I think all of the Genesis models look great and I really want them to succeed.

 

Yup, had a 2015 Infiniti Q50S and then a 2018 GS 350 F-Sport. The Q50 was a fun car and all, but the GS is most definitely a class above, both in the car itself and brand/ownership experience, despite how often these two are cross-shopped. The Q50 competes with cars like the 3-Series and C-Class. The GS competes with cars like the 5-Series and E-Class. Some would even say the A7 and CLS but that's debatable.

The GS is a lot more car than the Q50. It has a "germanic" heft and solidity that the Q50 lacks. All of the controls from steering to brakes to the buttons you press are so much more satisfying to use. The interior design, materials and attention to detail in the interior are so much nicer in the GS too. Things like the little cushion between the seat and the center console so nothing can fall down there, the soft-touch lower door panels front and rear instead of hard plastic, the power seat extender, the power rear sunshade, power trunk, etc etc.

You could easily hop in a Q50 and think you were in a Nissan as it shares MANY components with even the cheapest of Nissans. It also bothered me that the Nissan Maxima has a very similarly designed interior to the Q50, except it's nicer and has a lot more features that aren't even available in the Q50. On the other hand, I've had so many friends hop in my GS and ask questions like, "so does this compete with the 7-series?" or "so how much was this, like $100,000?" There's no other world where someone would hop in a Q50 and ask those questions.

The only advantage I'd give the Q50 is that it's faster in the 0-80 range, but the GS pulls shockingly hard at 80mph+, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a little quicker up there. I never really took the Q50 up past 90 though as it wasn't a very buttoned down or confidence inspiring experience. The GS on the other hand I've taken many times up to its top speed of 143. It just feels so good at higher speeds. I could easily see cruising down the autobahn in the GS, not so much the Q50.

The GS is also a ton of fun to throw around in Sport S+ mode, I'd say it easily out-handles the Q50, but it's also really rewarding to drive when you're stuck in traffic, just trying to get to work and back, running errands, etc. It makes the mundane feel a little less... mundane. It makes you feel like you're in something special. I don't think you'll ever really find that in the Q50. When you're not driving the Q50 around like a total d-bag, it's not very special or exciting to drive and just feels like you could be in any other midsize sedan. In the Q50, I only didn't mind being stuck in traffic in it because its adaptive cruise actually worked really well in stop and go traffic. The GS' adaptive cruise doesn't work as well, but I don't mind driving it in traffic because of how harmoniously the entire car works together from the steering feel, to the brakes, to the suspension, etc. The GS is always a treat to drive and I never found myself growing tired of it after 3 years. I was itching to get out of my Q50S around the 2 year mark. I also had a pretty terrible experience with the brakes in that car and Infiniti corporate and many of the dealerships in SoCal were equally terrible to work with. The brake issues were never resolved and would go out at random. It was awful. I just towed a 6x12 fully loaded cargo trailer from CA to MO with the GS and it even did a fantastic job doing that and was a beast of a tow car. Didn't even complain one bit doing what I'm sure it was never designed to do.

 

I agree with u 100%, except that I've never hit top speed yet. Not because I'm scared the car will fall apart but I don't want to wake up the sleeping Po-Po's on the side of the road.

 

Thanks for all the posts.

I think it is a race between the GS and Hyundai. I'm not a fast driver and not looking to race/rally the car so sounds like the sport benefits of the Q50 don't impact me.

I was merely considering the Q50 due to it's looks.

But now looking for a more classic and timeless look. The GS and Hyundai match that.

Also looking for more luxury vs sport. Something where when I'm in the drivers seat and driving along, it's a smooth comfortable ride and shelters me from the outside world.

I have an IS250 and although not up to par with the GS I do appreciate the small details of the car. Nothing flashy but the layout just works and absolutely no rattles nor issues, even after 160K miles.

One thing going for the Hyundai are all the standard features, especially safety/tech ones like lane keep assist and dynamic cruise control.

At my price point, I don't think I'll will be getting a GS with those features but it looks to be standard on the Hyundai.

But not sure if I will need them. Honestly the biggest thing I'm looking forward to is ability to play music off USB and heated steering wheel

 

I'm in a similar situation as I was looking at the GS or Q50 as well. Heard the Q50 had horrible reliability ratings and am now settled on a 2014-2017 GS 350 F sport. Good luck in your search!

 

Back in 2015, I was shopping for 2014-21 C300, 3IS, 2014-21 Hyundai Genesis [Genesis G80] and 2012-20 4GS.

The C300 was a superb alrounder, great looking, great 2.0T with literally no lag and so smooth for a four pot, with superb handling, ride and refinement, but C Class was only a compact, and I didn't want more reliability issues with another Mercedes after the warranty period expires - my Indian friend says that German cars are deliberately engineered to fall apart after the warranty period, because they believe cars should be scrapped every 10 years.

The 3IS was a rather aggressively styled compact, but the cruising noise along the highway due to thinner glass or whatever turned me off.

The Infiniti Q50 mentioned is actually a Japanese Domestic Market JDM Nissan Skyline, which in turn is the direct competitor to the JDM Toyota Mark II/X Series.
These cars are not a true compact like C/3/A4/IS, nor a true midsize like E/5/A6/GS, but an intermediate size between the two.
This intermediate size was created back in the 1970's to 1980's to keep the cars below 4.7 m in length and 1.7 m in width with a lower tax bracket - to encourage efficiency.
In 1989, this law, tax and size limit was abolished in Japan to enable Japanese cars to be more competitive globally.
Hence a Q50 will generally perform intermediately between a compact and a midsizer.

The Hyundai Genesis has a great front quarter view, however the rear lacks chrome work, so looks a tad cheap; however, too much chrome looks like the 1960's.
IMO, the Genesis interior styling is too old school Jaguaresque for me; I have more contemporary tastes.
Just as the Q50 is an intermediate size, the Genesis is an intermediate size too, being about 1/2 a size larger than all other midsize sedans.
While the 4GS and current 5 Series have 99 cu ft of passenger volume, the Genesis has a whopping 108 cu ft!
Because Hyundai is a little behind in tech, and because the Genesis is oversized, the performance, braking, economy, and handling takes a hit.
However, the extra size and weight helps with comfort and quietness.
In the show room a few years ago, the rear right window sunshade had a warped molding such that it would not latch onto the window frame hook, hence Hyundai's build quality is not on par with Lexus.
Hyundais are nice and cheap.

Hence I went with 2015 GS350, but I found out it was very firm riding despite handling almost like a compact sedan, so I retrofitted 2014 coils and shock absorbers - which is better riding and not so tied down with too much float control thanks to softer shock absorbers, but the coils are still very taut and non-compliant.
I can't wait till I retrofit 2016-20 GS coils, shock absorbers and roll bars, the 2016-20 coils and roll bars are now much more compliant, while the shock absorbers have similar floatiness to the 2014.
For me, a 2016-20 GS is the ideal ride/handling balance; decently comfortable ride [not as outright comfy as Genesis nor ES], but able to dump the car at turns and roundabouts, where an oversized overweight Hyundai Genesis and FWD-based ES dump like a barge...

 

I like your philosophy, if you dont like something about the car, change it to fit your needs. I am fairly new to the forum and one thing I have noticed is that many will endlessly complain about the infotainment or ride quality or dash creaks and never do anything about it when there are easy solutions. When I decided on a GS I went with a non-nav, base 200t on purpose to save about 10k knowing I can add a tune to make it quicker than a GS350, Michelin PS4S tires to make it handle better than an F Sport and screen mirroring/AA/GROM to bring the infotainment ahead of the competition.

 

This is also true of the third generation IS. I had a 2015 IS 350 F Sport which I loved but found the GS 350 F Sport to be superior in every way. The adaptable suspension in the softest setting gives a creamy ride and a slightly sportier feel in sport mode. My experience with the IS 350 is that the ride quality of the luxury version without the adaptable suspension was not as good as the softest setting on the F Sport adaptable suspension. Not sure if this is true for the GS.

The quality of Infiniti products is a level below Lexus. Lexus’ are more refined and have much better build quality and reliability.

Don’t have any experience with the Hyundai but they are well reviewed. What I admire about them is that since they started, they have been continually improving themselves to be the best in the industry. When I am ready to change my GS, I will give them strong consideration.

 

It all depends what sort of handling/comfort compromize the OP is after I guess.

For outright space, comfort and quietness - go Hyundai Genesis, if you don't mind the siZe, maneuverability, performance, braking, fuel efficiency, handling and build/reliability.
For a beautiful balance between comfort and quietness, the OP could get a 2016-20 GS, else a 2013 GS with 2016-20 suspension.
The 2013 GS itself is a good handling car, but the coil springs and roll bars are quite terse, so if the OP is after an ES/Hyundai Genesis ride, then there may be disappointment.
For a midsize luxury sedan that handles almost like a compact sedan, the OP best go for 2015 GS, else a 2013 GS with 2015 suspension.

 

So there seems to be quite a divide in ride experience from 2013-2014, 2015, and 2016+

I do prefer the more muted spindle grill. It looks like the 2013-2015 are more muted and the 2016+ kicked it up a notch.

I am more after a smooth, quiet luxury ride but I also don't want it to feel like a boat, especially in corners. Thanks

 

Yes, depending on the actual build date by month and year, the GS has different shock absorbers, springs and roll bars.
Generally speaking, the 4GS got progressively firmer, reaching their peak in 2015.
From 2016, there was an about face with softer suspension and a whole lot more sound deadening used too.

2018 saw new rear roll bars fitted across the range.
While 2020, the 4.7GS received brand new front and rear coil springs.

The chart below shows the different suspension part numbers used for the Luxury & F Sport trim which share the same electronic variable shock absorbers.

 

I completely agree with you about the spindle grille, the '13-'15 had a bit of a look you'd expect on a more reserved luxury car whereas the '16+ had a much more sporty, agressive look, although part of that is also the number of F Sports you see out there. The '16+ non-F Sport grille to me just looked a little bit "cheap" - just plastic bars. I also think a piece of the '16+ front has to do with some of the other lines in the bumper - if you look at the GS F I think the front has a more cohesive look. I know they needed to give the GS F it's own look for sales but it would have been nice if they had continued to refine the GS a little bit too.

I'm with you (for the most part) on ride, I don't want to feel ever bump but I don't want it to feel like a big late '70s Cadillac or Lincoln. There's a time and place for that sort of ride - just not on my daily drive


I'm always amazed by the wealth of knowledge on this forum and enjoy it! Thanks for pointing these little things out.

So what does it mean when the production dates over lap? Is there any sort of correspondence to the model years in any of these situations? There's a year of overlap in the 4.6. Does something like the 2/2019 date of the 4.7 correspond to the 2020 MY release or is it all just sort of arbitrary?

 

The 1GS, 2GS, 3GS and 4GS etc is not an official model designation system from Toyota Motor Corp, but an arbitrary model designation system developed by the late LexusFather on ClubLexus Forums to help distinguish between different generations.
The decimal designation in the 4.6GS etc, is also just an arbitrary system to help distinguish between sub-models.

In truth, the 4GS's 8 years stretch are filled with thousands of part number changes, day by day.
The most important point about the 4.6GS is that from January 2018 onwards, new rear roll bars were finally fitted across the range, including RWD, AWD and hybrid models.
From February 2019 onwards, different front and rear coil spring part numbers were fitted to the RWD and AWD models.

 

Sorry for the confusion - I totally understand the terminology we use here in the forum may not be official Toyota Corp designations. I also understand that part number changes could also be simply due to supplier change or all kinds of other internal reasons and may or may not directly impact how the car feels or the parts wear.

I guess maybe a better way to put it - do the changes to parts that DO impact something like how the car rides or handles in this case happen when the model year change happens or can it literally be as random as 5 months into the 2019 MY production they make a change, or two months before the 2018 MY production ended they made a change? I tried looking for production dates of each MY and couldn't seem to find anything.