6 speed auto concern
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From: New york
6 speed auto concern
I have the 2016 6 speed awd gs350 fsport
2 years ago a "lexus specialist" was diagnosing my car and felt the need to accelerate in drive and throw it into reverse, he did this 5 times back and forth and caused the car to shake pretty hard and to this day I still don't know if that caused damage to the transmission. When coming to a stop with foot on the brake I can see on the tach the car downshifting as the engine revs up and it this is in all driving modes. As the car comes to about 5 mph it downshifts into 1st gear because I see the tachometer needle revving up and I feel a slight lurch forward everytime, it doesn't come to a stop smoothly.
Does anyone else experience this in their 6 speed car?
I've took it to lexus a few times but they say the car is drivable and so they won't do anything. I'm now at the point of looking into the cost of replacing the transmission since I've lost all patience
2 years ago a "lexus specialist" was diagnosing my car and felt the need to accelerate in drive and throw it into reverse, he did this 5 times back and forth and caused the car to shake pretty hard and to this day I still don't know if that caused damage to the transmission. When coming to a stop with foot on the brake I can see on the tach the car downshifting as the engine revs up and it this is in all driving modes. As the car comes to about 5 mph it downshifts into 1st gear because I see the tachometer needle revving up and I feel a slight lurch forward everytime, it doesn't come to a stop smoothly.
Does anyone else experience this in their 6 speed car?
I've took it to lexus a few times but they say the car is drivable and so they won't do anything. I'm now at the point of looking into the cost of replacing the transmission since I've lost all patience
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 956
Likes: 271
From: Canada
Yes, downshifting in autos is completely normal... otherwise the engine would either stall, or the car will bog when you get back on the gas. But it's difficult for us to tell how much "lurch" you are experiencing, mine is pretty smooth.
Instructor
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 780
Likes: 120
From: MA
I have the 2016 6 speed awd gs350 fsport
2 years ago a "lexus specialist" was diagnosing my car and felt the need to accelerate in drive and throw it into reverse, he did this 5 times back and forth and caused the car to shake pretty hard and to this day I still don't know if that caused damage to the transmission.
2 years ago a "lexus specialist" was diagnosing my car and felt the need to accelerate in drive and throw it into reverse, he did this 5 times back and forth and caused the car to shake pretty hard and to this day I still don't know if that caused damage to the transmission.
Every story I've heard of someone nuking an auto is usually something along these lines "I was rocking the car to get it out of the snow, and after that it didnt work right" If someone is careful in that operation coming to a full stop, not so much of a problem, but people get sloppy... and clutch packs can get ****ed from that stuff.
-Mike
Driver
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 98
Likes: 26
From: FL
Man, I am sorry to hear this. I agree, if there was a book on how to destroy a transmission, it would be difficult to flip to page 2 without mentioned what happened to your car.
Who was this guy? Some yahoo at a car meet? Sounds like he needs some kneecap modification?
Who was this guy? Some yahoo at a car meet? Sounds like he needs some kneecap modification?
Last edited by SpicedRum; Nov 21, 2018 at 10:50 AM.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 13,614
Likes: 2,913
From: Texas
The technician was performing a simple and quick test of the transmission's torque converter, especially the stator. The technician was testing the transmission to see if reverse and 1st gear engaged smoothly with proper clutch and band engagement. The transmission's internal clutches and bands are designed to slide a little when engaging, which provides smooth shifting. Thus the test!
When an automatic transmission locks into gears it is done by clutches and bands (which is much like brake shoes with a frictional facing), and is activated by hydraulics of the AT fluid pressured through tiny orifices and ports within the transmission's internals. The transmission is not damaged when shifting into drive while the car is still slowly moving backwards (or when shifting into reverse while the car is still slowly moving forward) because there is no hard mechanical links (e.g. engaged gear teeth) between anything in the automatic transmission. The relatively slow engagement of the clutches and the cushioned effect of the torque converter absorb any low speed differentials and allow you to do this without any harm to the transmission whatsoever.
Automatic transmissions need a method to be in gear and be able to have the car stopped without stalling the engine. This is achieved by using a torque converter, which connects the engine to the transmission through a fluid coupling. The torque converter works like a KitchenAid stand mixer - mixing a thick batter or pudding in a bowl; if you beat the pudding without holding onto the bowl, the bowl will spin. But, if you hold onto the bowl (like applying the brakes in your car) the mixer's beater will continue to turn the pudding, but the bowl (your transmission/drive shaft/differential/wheels) will be stopped. The shake or shudder you detected was the torque converter reacting - same as the mixer's beater turning the pudding in the mixer bowl without holding the bowl - the bowl will turn and wobble...just as the torque converter shook and shuddered.
If you had a KitchenAid stand mixer with the mixing bowl partially filled with pudding - and you started the mixer stirring or beating the pudding, the mixing bowl would spin around and around if the bowl wasn't secured in the stand. But, either way (bowl secured, or free to spin around) neither the mixer nor the bowl would be damaged as they are not directly connected...because the two (mixer & bowl) only connects [couples] the mixer to the bowl of pudding through a fluid coupling (the pudding being the equivalent of fluid), which is exactly what a torque converter does in an automatic transmission by connecting [coupling] the engine to the transmission through a coupling of fluid in the torque converter. No harm was done...
Like the transmission's clutches and bands, the torque converter's operation can also be a source or clue to problems as well. Needless to say, nothing happens without automatic transmission fluid. It is critically important to always use the proper ATF (preferably the exact OE fluid) and maintain the proper fill.
Again, the technician did no harm because doing what he did could not cause any harm.
You can certainly express your 'surprise' at what the technician did to give it a quick test, but I can assure you it did no harm...and any technician checking it would likely do exactly the same. You're worrying over something that is equivalent to damaging the paint on your car by tapping your knuckles on the hood.
.
When an automatic transmission locks into gears it is done by clutches and bands (which is much like brake shoes with a frictional facing), and is activated by hydraulics of the AT fluid pressured through tiny orifices and ports within the transmission's internals. The transmission is not damaged when shifting into drive while the car is still slowly moving backwards (or when shifting into reverse while the car is still slowly moving forward) because there is no hard mechanical links (e.g. engaged gear teeth) between anything in the automatic transmission. The relatively slow engagement of the clutches and the cushioned effect of the torque converter absorb any low speed differentials and allow you to do this without any harm to the transmission whatsoever.
Automatic transmissions need a method to be in gear and be able to have the car stopped without stalling the engine. This is achieved by using a torque converter, which connects the engine to the transmission through a fluid coupling. The torque converter works like a KitchenAid stand mixer - mixing a thick batter or pudding in a bowl; if you beat the pudding without holding onto the bowl, the bowl will spin. But, if you hold onto the bowl (like applying the brakes in your car) the mixer's beater will continue to turn the pudding, but the bowl (your transmission/drive shaft/differential/wheels) will be stopped. The shake or shudder you detected was the torque converter reacting - same as the mixer's beater turning the pudding in the mixer bowl without holding the bowl - the bowl will turn and wobble...just as the torque converter shook and shuddered.
If you had a KitchenAid stand mixer with the mixing bowl partially filled with pudding - and you started the mixer stirring or beating the pudding, the mixing bowl would spin around and around if the bowl wasn't secured in the stand. But, either way (bowl secured, or free to spin around) neither the mixer nor the bowl would be damaged as they are not directly connected...because the two (mixer & bowl) only connects [couples] the mixer to the bowl of pudding through a fluid coupling (the pudding being the equivalent of fluid), which is exactly what a torque converter does in an automatic transmission by connecting [coupling] the engine to the transmission through a coupling of fluid in the torque converter. No harm was done...
Like the transmission's clutches and bands, the torque converter's operation can also be a source or clue to problems as well. Needless to say, nothing happens without automatic transmission fluid. It is critically important to always use the proper ATF (preferably the exact OE fluid) and maintain the proper fill.
Again, the technician did no harm because doing what he did could not cause any harm.
You can certainly express your 'surprise' at what the technician did to give it a quick test, but I can assure you it did no harm...and any technician checking it would likely do exactly the same. You're worrying over something that is equivalent to damaging the paint on your car by tapping your knuckles on the hood.
.
Last edited by bclexus; Nov 21, 2018 at 03:24 PM.
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Instructor
Joined: May 2015
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From: MA
The technician was performing a simple and quick test of the transmission's torque converter, especially the stator. The technician was testing the transmission to see if reverse and 1st gear engaged smoothly with proper clutch and band engagement. The transmission's internal clutches and bands are designed to slide a little when engaging, which provides smooth shifting. Thus the test!
When an automatic transmission locks into gears it is done by clutches and bands (which is much like brake shoes with a frictional facing), and is activated by hydraulics of the AT fluid pressured through tiny orifices and ports within the transmission's internals. The transmission is not damaged when shifting into drive while the car is still slowly moving backwards (or when shifting into reverse while the car is still slowly moving forward) because there is no hard mechanical links (e.g. engaged gear teeth) between anything in the automatic transmission. The relatively slow engagement of the clutches and the cushioned effect of the torque converter absorb any low speed differentials and allow you to do this without any harm to the transmission whatsoever.
Automatic transmissions need a method to be in gear and be able to have the car stopped without stalling the engine. This is achieved by using a torque converter, which connects the engine to the transmission through a fluid coupling. The torque converter works like a KitchenAid stand mixer - mixing a thick batter or pudding in a bowl; if you beat the pudding without holding onto the bowl, the bowl will spin. But, if you hold onto the bowl (like applying the brakes in your car) the mixer's beater will continue to turn the pudding, but the bowl (your transmission/drive shaft/differential/wheels) will be stopped. The shake or shudder you detected was the torque converter reacting - same as the mixer's beater turning the pudding in the mixer bowl without holding the bowl - the bowl will turn and wobble...just as the torque converter shook and shuddered.
If you had a KitchenAid stand mixer with the mixing bowl partially filled with pudding - and you started the mixer stirring or beating the pudding, the mixing bowl would spin around and around if the bowl wasn't secured in the stand. But, either way (bowl secured, or free to spin around) neither the mixer nor the bowl would be damaged as they are not directly connected...because the two (mixer & bowl) only connects [couples] the mixer to the bowl of pudding through a fluid coupling (the pudding being the equivalent of fluid), which is exactly what a torque converter does in an automatic transmission by connecting [coupling] the engine to the transmission through a coupling of fluid in the torque converter. No harm was done...
Like the transmission's clutches and bands, the torque converter's operation can also be a source or clue to problems as well. Needless to say, nothing happens without automatic transmission fluid. It is critically important to always use the proper ATF (preferably the exact OE fluid) and maintain the proper fill.
Again, the technician did no harm because doing what he did could not cause any harm.
You can certainly express your 'surprise' at what the technician did to give it a quick test, but I can assure you it did no harm...and any technician checking it would likely do exactly the same. You're worrying over something that is equivalent to damaging the paint on your car by tapping your knuckles on the hood.
.
https://youtu.be/pTfipsejqS0
When an automatic transmission locks into gears it is done by clutches and bands (which is much like brake shoes with a frictional facing), and is activated by hydraulics of the AT fluid pressured through tiny orifices and ports within the transmission's internals. The transmission is not damaged when shifting into drive while the car is still slowly moving backwards (or when shifting into reverse while the car is still slowly moving forward) because there is no hard mechanical links (e.g. engaged gear teeth) between anything in the automatic transmission. The relatively slow engagement of the clutches and the cushioned effect of the torque converter absorb any low speed differentials and allow you to do this without any harm to the transmission whatsoever.
Automatic transmissions need a method to be in gear and be able to have the car stopped without stalling the engine. This is achieved by using a torque converter, which connects the engine to the transmission through a fluid coupling. The torque converter works like a KitchenAid stand mixer - mixing a thick batter or pudding in a bowl; if you beat the pudding without holding onto the bowl, the bowl will spin. But, if you hold onto the bowl (like applying the brakes in your car) the mixer's beater will continue to turn the pudding, but the bowl (your transmission/drive shaft/differential/wheels) will be stopped. The shake or shudder you detected was the torque converter reacting - same as the mixer's beater turning the pudding in the mixer bowl without holding the bowl - the bowl will turn and wobble...just as the torque converter shook and shuddered.
If you had a KitchenAid stand mixer with the mixing bowl partially filled with pudding - and you started the mixer stirring or beating the pudding, the mixing bowl would spin around and around if the bowl wasn't secured in the stand. But, either way (bowl secured, or free to spin around) neither the mixer nor the bowl would be damaged as they are not directly connected...because the two (mixer & bowl) only connects [couples] the mixer to the bowl of pudding through a fluid coupling (the pudding being the equivalent of fluid), which is exactly what a torque converter does in an automatic transmission by connecting [coupling] the engine to the transmission through a coupling of fluid in the torque converter. No harm was done...
Like the transmission's clutches and bands, the torque converter's operation can also be a source or clue to problems as well. Needless to say, nothing happens without automatic transmission fluid. It is critically important to always use the proper ATF (preferably the exact OE fluid) and maintain the proper fill.
Again, the technician did no harm because doing what he did could not cause any harm.
You can certainly express your 'surprise' at what the technician did to give it a quick test, but I can assure you it did no harm...and any technician checking it would likely do exactly the same. You're worrying over something that is equivalent to damaging the paint on your car by tapping your knuckles on the hood.
.
https://youtu.be/pTfipsejqS0
Then again if the OP never noticed any other issues until TWO YEARS later, it makes me think that the incidents are not correlated regardless.
-Mike
Lexus Champion
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 13,614
Likes: 2,913
From: Texas
This is interesting, I get how a torque converter works, but I've never heard of this being "okay" to shift a car into reverse without fully stopping it first.
Then again if the OP never noticed any other issues until TWO YEARS later, it makes me think that the incidents are not correlated regardless.
-Mike
Then again if the OP never noticed any other issues until TWO YEARS later, it makes me think that the incidents are not correlated regardless.
-Mike
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: New york
So let me get this straight, you witnessed this, and you didn't do anything about it 2 years ago? If I was to write a manual of "how to **** up an automatic transmission" this would be on the first page somewhere....
Every story I've heard of someone nuking an auto is usually something along these lines "I was rocking the car to get it out of the snow, and after that it didnt work right" If someone is careful in that operation coming to a full stop, not so much of a problem, but people get sloppy... and clutch packs can get ****ed from that stuff.
-Mike
Every story I've heard of someone nuking an auto is usually something along these lines "I was rocking the car to get it out of the snow, and after that it didnt work right" If someone is careful in that operation coming to a full stop, not so much of a problem, but people get sloppy... and clutch packs can get ****ed from that stuff.
-Mike
I addressed it the same day infront of the lexus specialist that did it and the shop foreman and two other lexus employee from the dealership all in the same room. Ofcourse they all dismissed me and he denied it and got pissed that I confronted him about it with them in the room. I been experiencing it since then but as long the car is driving lexus does not give a F***. My word against theirs? I stand no chance
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 53
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From: New york
The technician was performing a simple and quick test of the transmission's torque converter, especially the stator. The technician was testing the transmission to see if reverse and 1st gear engaged smoothly with proper clutch and band engagement. The transmission's internal clutches and bands are designed to slide a little when engaging, which provides smooth shifting. Thus the test!
When an automatic transmission locks into gears it is done by clutches and bands (which is much like brake shoes with a frictional facing), and is activated by hydraulics of the AT fluid pressured through tiny orifices and ports within the transmission's internals. The transmission is not damaged when shifting into drive while the car is still slowly moving backwards (or when shifting into reverse while the car is still slowly moving forward) because there is no hard mechanical links (e.g. engaged gear teeth) between anything in the automatic transmission. The relatively slow engagement of the clutches and the cushioned effect of the torque converter absorb any low speed differentials and allow you to do this without any harm to the transmission whatsoever.
Automatic transmissions need a method to be in gear and be able to have the car stopped without stalling the engine. This is achieved by using a torque converter, which connects the engine to the transmission through a fluid coupling. The torque converter works like a KitchenAid stand mixer - mixing a thick batter or pudding in a bowl; if you beat the pudding without holding onto the bowl, the bowl will spin. But, if you hold onto the bowl (like applying the brakes in your car) the mixer's beater will continue to turn the pudding, but the bowl (your transmission/drive shaft/differential/wheels) will be stopped. The shake or shudder you detected was the torque converter reacting - same as the mixer's beater turning the pudding in the mixer bowl without holding the bowl - the bowl will turn and wobble...just as the torque converter shook and shuddered.
If you had a KitchenAid stand mixer with the mixing bowl partially filled with pudding - and you started the mixer stirring or beating the pudding, the mixing bowl would spin around and around if the bowl wasn't secured in the stand. But, either way (bowl secured, or free to spin around) neither the mixer nor the bowl would be damaged as they are not directly connected...because the two (mixer & bowl) only connects [couples] the mixer to the bowl of pudding through a fluid coupling (the pudding being the equivalent of fluid), which is exactly what a torque converter does in an automatic transmission by connecting [coupling] the engine to the transmission through a coupling of fluid in the torque converter. No harm was done...
Like the transmission's clutches and bands, the torque converter's operation can also be a source or clue to problems as well. Needless to say, nothing happens without automatic transmission fluid. It is critically important to always use the proper ATF (preferably the exact OE fluid) and maintain the proper fill.
Again, the technician did no harm because doing what he did could not cause any harm.
You can certainly express your 'surprise' at what the technician did to give it a quick test, but I can assure you it did no harm...and any technician checking it would likely do exactly the same. You're worrying over something that is equivalent to damaging the paint on your car by tapping your knuckles on the hood.
.
https://youtu.be/pTfipsejqS0
When an automatic transmission locks into gears it is done by clutches and bands (which is much like brake shoes with a frictional facing), and is activated by hydraulics of the AT fluid pressured through tiny orifices and ports within the transmission's internals. The transmission is not damaged when shifting into drive while the car is still slowly moving backwards (or when shifting into reverse while the car is still slowly moving forward) because there is no hard mechanical links (e.g. engaged gear teeth) between anything in the automatic transmission. The relatively slow engagement of the clutches and the cushioned effect of the torque converter absorb any low speed differentials and allow you to do this without any harm to the transmission whatsoever.
Automatic transmissions need a method to be in gear and be able to have the car stopped without stalling the engine. This is achieved by using a torque converter, which connects the engine to the transmission through a fluid coupling. The torque converter works like a KitchenAid stand mixer - mixing a thick batter or pudding in a bowl; if you beat the pudding without holding onto the bowl, the bowl will spin. But, if you hold onto the bowl (like applying the brakes in your car) the mixer's beater will continue to turn the pudding, but the bowl (your transmission/drive shaft/differential/wheels) will be stopped. The shake or shudder you detected was the torque converter reacting - same as the mixer's beater turning the pudding in the mixer bowl without holding the bowl - the bowl will turn and wobble...just as the torque converter shook and shuddered.
If you had a KitchenAid stand mixer with the mixing bowl partially filled with pudding - and you started the mixer stirring or beating the pudding, the mixing bowl would spin around and around if the bowl wasn't secured in the stand. But, either way (bowl secured, or free to spin around) neither the mixer nor the bowl would be damaged as they are not directly connected...because the two (mixer & bowl) only connects [couples] the mixer to the bowl of pudding through a fluid coupling (the pudding being the equivalent of fluid), which is exactly what a torque converter does in an automatic transmission by connecting [coupling] the engine to the transmission through a coupling of fluid in the torque converter. No harm was done...
Like the transmission's clutches and bands, the torque converter's operation can also be a source or clue to problems as well. Needless to say, nothing happens without automatic transmission fluid. It is critically important to always use the proper ATF (preferably the exact OE fluid) and maintain the proper fill.
Again, the technician did no harm because doing what he did could not cause any harm.
You can certainly express your 'surprise' at what the technician did to give it a quick test, but I can assure you it did no harm...and any technician checking it would likely do exactly the same. You're worrying over something that is equivalent to damaging the paint on your car by tapping your knuckles on the hood.
.
https://youtu.be/pTfipsejqS0
I appreciate you taking time to explain this, when he was doing this it wasn’t just putting the car in drive and then going to reverse as it started moving forward.
He put in drive and stepped on the gas and then through it in reverse and repeated this about 4 times, thats why I’m concerned it caused damage. The car shaked and it did not sound good at all
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 53
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From: New york
This is interesting, I get how a torque converter works, but I've never heard of this being "okay" to shift a car into reverse without fully stopping it first.
Then again if the OP never noticed any other issues until TWO YEARS later, it makes me think that the incidents are not correlated regardless.
-Mike
Then again if the OP never noticed any other issues until TWO YEARS later, it makes me think that the incidents are not correlated regardless.
-Mike
I been experiencing it for the past two years since that day, I was using wishful thinking hoping it would get better
I honestly love this car apart from this one problem I posted about and some dashboard rattle but that I can fix
Thread Starter
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From: New york
Its almost like something happended to first gear because the car can never downshift smoothly into 1st when coming to a stop. Its similar to if you down****ing into 1 st gear in a manual car but not as harsh but still you feel the car lurch a bit and its just annoying.
Thread Starter
Rookie
Joined: Aug 2016
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From: New york
Man, I am sorry to hear this. I agree, if there was a book on how to destroy a transmission, it would be difficult to flip to page 2 without mentioned what happened to your car.
Who was this guy? Some yahoo at a car meet? Sounds like he needs some kneecap modification?
Who was this guy? Some yahoo at a car meet? Sounds like he needs some kneecap modification?