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I agree with the context of your posting but do not see the relation to taking away a feature I use. This feature is already in place, does not change thus does not need new resources.
It doesn't relate to taking away a feature. That's a business decision which we likely will never truly understand unless somebody familiar with it speaks up.
All the product literature for my car says "Bing search" and by the time I bought mine used, they had removed Bing. Maybe the question we should be asking is "who runs the back-end for their destination search?" Companies create and eliminate partnerships. Somebody paid somebody for the use of Pandora, Yelp, Bing, iHeartRadio, navigation maps, Apple CarPlay, etc. and it's not always obvious who paid whom, or if actual cash was exchanged versus reciprocal benefits.
Maybe it's just a sly ploy to encourage drivers of older vehicles to buy newer ones. Mwuhahahaaaaaa. Probably the most disturbing thing I'd seen is the day that Lexus satellite issues caused cars across the country (globe, too?) to flash purple screens rather than work normally -- that's a major flaw!
I'll just piggy-back off of this existing thread to report that I had an unsolicited Lexus Enform update pop up on my 2016 GS NAV screen this morning, which is the first time that has happened. It uploaded and installed quickly while I was driving. Not sure what it did, but I found it interesting.
I understand your frustration and perhaps can shed at least some insight. In the context of electronics, the automotive industry is a very challenging one. Consumer electronics generally have focus in the areas of specs (MHz, GB's, battery life, etc.) and the innovation to exceed those specs and drive new ones. They're also generally cheaper, some of them considered "disposable," and let's face it -- few people will die if they malfunction.
Cars, on the other hand, are expected to work when it's 120F in Death Valley today and sub-zero Fahrenheit tomorrow when driving through the mountain range. They need to work in extreme dry and humidity. They're expected to do it reliably. Electronic components have a fairly high bar to become "automotive grade" to the point that individual factories and their production technology undergo rigorous qualification. Aerospace is similar, for good reason.
My iPhone has random crashes anywhere from daily to weekly. While frustrating, it's not the kind of thing forcing a company to fix an out-of-warranty product. It affects my satisfaction with Apple and my phone, but not my general safety or mobility.
This is an unresponsive reply to the points I raised, and frankly, a defense of the industry that is not warranted. First, the technology to provide high reliability electronic performance has been available for decades and the price to achieve that has fallen dramatically. Significant improvements can be achieved at a price point that is very similar or less than other consumer driven improvements (air conditioning, power windows, etc). Secondly, the fact that they charge 'extra' subscription fees for various parts of their system indicates that they are viewing these features as opportunities for increased revenue rather than enhancements to the feature set of the purchased vehicles.
If we accept these practices, we'll continue to see low rates of improvement, high subscription costs, and substandard electronics. I believe we should demand products that reflect the best technology in the industry built for the harsher automotive environment. Another indication of their lack of commitment to improvements in this area is that their sales representative are not even well trained in how to operate the features. I typically buy my cars via on-line communication and when I pickup the vehicle, the sales team inevitably tries to provide some pre-delivery instruction on use of the features. It is clear that most of them have virtually no expertise and often provide inaccurate information about the capabilities.
Overly Generalized Statement: Vehicle performance has been at a plateau for some time. Within each pricing strata, what you get in terms of performance, reliability, etc. has been substantially unchanged. I believe that on-board consumer electronics will become one of the substantial differentiators between the various makes and I hope that Lexus invests in improvements to maintain their leadership position.
I'll just piggy-back off of this existing thread to report that I had an unsolicited Lexus Enform update pop up on my 2016 GS NAV screen this morning, which is the first time that has happened. It uploaded and installed quickly while I was driving. Not sure what it did, but I found it interesting.
Mine updated this last weekend as well. Not sure what was added or removed???
This is an unresponsive reply to the points I raised, and frankly, a defense of the industry that is not warranted. First, the technology to provide high reliability electronic performance has been available for decades and the price to achieve that has fallen dramatically. Significant improvements can be achieved at a price point that is very similar or less than other consumer driven improvements (air conditioning, power windows, etc). Secondly, the fact that they charge 'extra' subscription fees for various parts of their system indicates that they are viewing these features as opportunities for increased revenue rather than enhancements to the feature set of the purchased vehicles.
If we accept these practices, we'll continue to see low rates of improvement, high subscription costs, and substandard electronics. I believe we should demand products that reflect the best technology in the industry built for the harsher automotive environment. Another indication of their lack of commitment to improvements in this area is that their sales representative are not even well trained in how to operate the features. I typically buy my cars via on-line communication and when I pickup the vehicle, the sales team inevitably tries to provide some pre-delivery instruction on use of the features. It is clear that most of them have virtually no expertise and often provide inaccurate information about the capabilities.
Overly Generalized Statement: Vehicle performance has been at a plateau for some time. Within each pricing strata, what you get in terms of performance, reliability, etc. has been substantially unchanged. I believe that on-board consumer electronics will become one of the substantial differentiators between the various makes and I hope that Lexus invests in improvements to maintain their leadership position.
To be fair, you asked a bunch of "why" questions to which I provided at least some portion of an answer. You're correct that the technology to create highly reliable components has been available, and many of those components exist. But you're looking for new and newly innovative. You want to run the latest whiz-bang features on your iPhone, and to do it without requiring a 20lb battery or taking 3 minutes to respond to a finger touch? You need new chips, with newer technology. If you could correlate better technology to better sales, I'm sure they'd take note.
Hyundai has thrown all sorts of gizmos into their cars, and I'm sure it's driven some sales. It also seems to have created lots of headache for customers due to malfunctioning technology.
I agree sales reps are generally poorly trained, and that probably relates to their business model as well. This seems common across brands & dealers. Sales people are expected to sell, and when they don't, they're gone either by choice or force. Good sales people learn how to sell a product and make sales that otherwise had a buyer on the fence. My experience is few sales people in the automotive industry understand the products they're selling, or even care to do so. Yet people keep buying cars. If you could correlate a particular brand's sales practice to better or worse sales, surely the brand would take note and make changes.
On the other side of your goals is that the "always something better on the horizon" both helps and hurts sales. Some people, especially for such a big ticket purchase as a car, would wait much longer on the promise of some feature they find dear. Consumer electronics, with much lower price tags, get treated differently by consumers (though some still hold out a while). Would you buy a 2017-2018 GS if I told you in 2019 they'll have a Apple CarPlay, Android whatever, a built-in Jarvis assistant, auto-pilot, and a twin-turbo V8 with better gas mileage for a similar price point as the 2017? Would you buy that in 2019 if I told you again in 2021 they'll have fully autonomous driving with manual override, adjustable drive height, driver-tuning of suspension, a twin-turbo V8, built-in satellite phone with unlimited data, mind-controllable controls, etc.?
To be fair, you asked a bunch of "why" questions to which I provided at least some portion of an answer. You're correct that the technology to create highly reliable components has been available, and many of those components exist. But you're looking for new and newly innovative. You want to run the latest whiz-bang features on your iPhone, and to do it without requiring a 20lb battery or taking 3 minutes to respond to a finger touch? You need new chips, with newer technology. If you could correlate better technology to better sales, I'm sure they'd take note.
Hyundai has thrown all sorts of gizmos into their cars, and I'm sure it's driven some sales. It also seems to have created lots of headache for customers due to malfunctioning technology.
I agree sales reps are generally poorly trained, and that probably relates to their business model as well. This seems common across brands & dealers. Sales people are expected to sell, and when they don't, they're gone either by choice or force. Good sales people learn how to sell a product and make sales that otherwise had a buyer on the fence. My experience is few sales people in the automotive industry understand the products they're selling, or even care to do so. Yet people keep buying cars. If you could correlate a particular brand's sales practice to better or worse sales, surely the brand would take note and make changes.
On the other side of your goals is that the "always something better on the horizon" both helps and hurts sales. Some people, especially for such a big ticket purchase as a car, would wait much longer on the promise of some feature they find dear. Consumer electronics, with much lower price tags, get treated differently by consumers (though some still hold out a while). Would you buy a 2017-2018 GS if I told you in 2019 they'll have a Apple CarPlay, Android whatever, a built-in Jarvis assistant, auto-pilot, and a twin-turbo V8 with better gas mileage for a similar price point as the 2017? Would you buy that in 2019 if I told you again in 2021 they'll have fully autonomous driving with manual override, adjustable drive height, driver-tuning of suspension, a twin-turbo V8, built-in satellite phone with unlimited data, mind-controllable controls, etc.?
Sorry... after rereading my reply, it has an unintended critical tone.
Yes, I suppose that consumers might delay purchases waiting for 'something better,' but there is enough headroom to provide 'something better' each new model year for quite a while. The rate of improvement has been at glacial speeds and the 'older' models can rarely be software/firmware updated to the newer features. I bought (leased) my current car in 2015 and there have been zero updates; no new features, no performance or reliability improvements. On the other hand, my iPhone has updated the OS 4 times (at least) and most apps have been updated quarterly. If the automotive industry can't handle innovation at a reasonable pace, then they should just develop a system that interacts with the handheld technology that virtually every one of their customer possesses. I suspect that they are still patting themselves on their backs because they support bluetooth integration. We need to encourage/demand more robust development in this area; when my lease expires in 2018, I plan to do just that.
Sorry... after rereading my reply, it has an unintended critical tone.
Yes, I suppose that consumers might delay purchases waiting for 'something better,' but there is enough headroom to provide 'something better' each new model year for quite a while. The rate of improvement has been at glacial speeds and the 'older' models can rarely be software/firmware updated to the newer features. I bought (leased) my current car in 2015 and there have been zero updates; no new features, no performance or reliability improvements. On the other hand, my iPhone has updated the OS 4 times (at least) and most apps have been updated quarterly. If the automotive industry can't handle innovation at a reasonable pace, then they should just develop a system that interacts with the handheld technology that virtually every one of their customer possesses. I suspect that they are still patting themselves on their backs because they support bluetooth integration. We need to encourage/demand more robust development in this area; when my lease expires in 2018, I plan to do just that.
Not to hijack's the OP's post, but the topic about the technology (or lack thereof) in our vehicles has been discussed on this forum in great detail.
This is an eye opener for me, as I always wondered if there was an easy way to send addresses to my car (instead of inputting them manually). I am attempting to follow the directions listed above, but seem to be stuck. Where, exactly, is "destination search" in the iPhone app?
06-06-17, 09:08 PM
