Advanced Pre Collision System
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 386
Likes: 57
From: NJ
Advanced Pre Collision System
I'm looking at the new GS, but am having an incredibly hard time finding about APCS. All I know for sure is that it claims to reduce the severity of a crash by braking, and tightening the seat belts.
I'm comparing it similar systems in other cars, but it's like pulling teeth. Here are some simple questions. I'd love to hear from someone who has it. My dealer doesn't have it on any of their demos, nor can they tell me where I can find one.
Does it give you any warning so you can avoid a collision? or does it just tell you that you're going to crash, and that APCS is mitigating the damage.
What does it do for you if you're distracted and are closing on a car in front of you that has slowed down or stopped? My wife's new VOLVO tells you you're getting too close and alerts with a yellow light on the windshield. The driver can adjust how much warning. All that's missing there is that there's no audible alert available (yet).
Does the radar look at cross traffic, like intersections? I saw an article from '09 that hinted at it.
How about some technical specs, like the beam width (field of regard). What is the operational logic?
As to the Advanced part of APCS, I understand that it looks for pedestrians and gives warning. what is it's logic? Does it work at night? in rain? is it triggered by animals as well, like deer?
I've had Lexus cars i my driveway since the brand came out, and would love to stay with them - currently drive 2006 GS300, but they may well lose me over this issue, sad to say. They already lost my wife when she got the Volvo, trading her GS for an S80.
I'm comparing it similar systems in other cars, but it's like pulling teeth. Here are some simple questions. I'd love to hear from someone who has it. My dealer doesn't have it on any of their demos, nor can they tell me where I can find one.
Does it give you any warning so you can avoid a collision? or does it just tell you that you're going to crash, and that APCS is mitigating the damage.
What does it do for you if you're distracted and are closing on a car in front of you that has slowed down or stopped? My wife's new VOLVO tells you you're getting too close and alerts with a yellow light on the windshield. The driver can adjust how much warning. All that's missing there is that there's no audible alert available (yet).
Does the radar look at cross traffic, like intersections? I saw an article from '09 that hinted at it.
How about some technical specs, like the beam width (field of regard). What is the operational logic?
As to the Advanced part of APCS, I understand that it looks for pedestrians and gives warning. what is it's logic? Does it work at night? in rain? is it triggered by animals as well, like deer?
I've had Lexus cars i my driveway since the brand came out, and would love to stay with them - currently drive 2006 GS300, but they may well lose me over this issue, sad to say. They already lost my wife when she got the Volvo, trading her GS for an S80.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,206
Likes: 253
I'm looking at the new GS, but am having an incredibly hard time finding about APCS. All I know for sure is that it claims to reduce the severity of a crash by braking, and tightening the seat belts.
I'm comparing it similar systems in other cars, but it's like pulling teeth. Here are some simple questions. I'd love to hear from someone who has it. My dealer doesn't have it on any of their demos, nor can they tell me where I can find one.
Does it give you any warning so you can avoid a collision? or does it just tell you that you're going to crash, and that APCS is mitigating the damage.
What does it do for you if you're distracted and are closing on a car in front of you that has slowed down or stopped? My wife's new VOLVO tells you you're getting too close and alerts with a yellow light on the windshield. The driver can adjust how much warning. All that's missing there is that there's no audible alert available (yet).
Does the radar look at cross traffic, like intersections? I saw an article from '09 that hinted at it.
How about some technical specs, like the beam width (field of regard). What is the operational logic?
As to the Advanced part of APCS, I understand that it looks for pedestrians and gives warning. what is it's logic? Does it work at night? in rain? is it triggered by animals as well, like deer?
I've had Lexus cars i my driveway since the brand came out, and would love to stay with them - currently drive 2006 GS300, but they may well lose me over this issue, sad to say. They already lost my wife when she got the Volvo, trading her GS for an S80.
I'm comparing it similar systems in other cars, but it's like pulling teeth. Here are some simple questions. I'd love to hear from someone who has it. My dealer doesn't have it on any of their demos, nor can they tell me where I can find one.
Does it give you any warning so you can avoid a collision? or does it just tell you that you're going to crash, and that APCS is mitigating the damage.
What does it do for you if you're distracted and are closing on a car in front of you that has slowed down or stopped? My wife's new VOLVO tells you you're getting too close and alerts with a yellow light on the windshield. The driver can adjust how much warning. All that's missing there is that there's no audible alert available (yet).
Does the radar look at cross traffic, like intersections? I saw an article from '09 that hinted at it.
How about some technical specs, like the beam width (field of regard). What is the operational logic?
As to the Advanced part of APCS, I understand that it looks for pedestrians and gives warning. what is it's logic? Does it work at night? in rain? is it triggered by animals as well, like deer?
I've had Lexus cars i my driveway since the brand came out, and would love to stay with them - currently drive 2006 GS300, but they may well lose me over this issue, sad to say. They already lost my wife when she got the Volvo, trading her GS for an S80.
Lead Lap
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 423
Likes: 1
From: CA
This answer can be a bit tricky because each generation and model seem to have a slightly different version of PCS. I'll try to tell you what I KNOW it does. This version could have more than this available but like you mentioned they don't outline the specifics very clearly.
It definitely does warn you of a collision with sufficient time to take action and avoid it - unless it comes from cross traffic. From what I know, it does not detect someone coming through an intersection until it is in front of the car.
If the car sees a possible collision, it does a number of things: primes the brakes and applies full brake pressure when you hit the peddle, puts a big message saying BRAKE on the screen between the gauges, chimes rapidly, firms the shocks to max firmness (to avoid dive in braking to protect occupants and pedestrians) and tightens the seat belts. There is certainly enough warning and procedure taking place during this aspect.
On the 3GS at least the car only brakes autonomously if it knows that no matter what brake input, the accident will happen (apart from a handy swerve).
The advanced label comes from the camera mounted on the steering column that spwolf mentioned. Basically, if it knows you aren't looking it warns you earlier and I think applies autonomous braking earlier.
You can see the way the warning works in a Lexus around the 3:25 mark of this video :
And you can see the way it does a last ditch effort to lower vehicle speed before collision if there is no driver input in this one:
It definitely does warn you of a collision with sufficient time to take action and avoid it - unless it comes from cross traffic. From what I know, it does not detect someone coming through an intersection until it is in front of the car.
If the car sees a possible collision, it does a number of things: primes the brakes and applies full brake pressure when you hit the peddle, puts a big message saying BRAKE on the screen between the gauges, chimes rapidly, firms the shocks to max firmness (to avoid dive in braking to protect occupants and pedestrians) and tightens the seat belts. There is certainly enough warning and procedure taking place during this aspect.
On the 3GS at least the car only brakes autonomously if it knows that no matter what brake input, the accident will happen (apart from a handy swerve).
The advanced label comes from the camera mounted on the steering column that spwolf mentioned. Basically, if it knows you aren't looking it warns you earlier and I think applies autonomous braking earlier.
You can see the way the warning works in a Lexus around the 3:25 mark of this video :
And you can see the way it does a last ditch effort to lower vehicle speed before collision if there is no driver input in this one:
Pole Position
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
From: Mo
I've got one on order with APCS on it and that's one of the reasons I ordered it. Along with Lane Assist and BSM it seems like an exceptionally safe car when equipped with the available safety options. You are correct in that information is hard to find but you can get more info by googling it..thanks for the videos. They were informative.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,206
Likes: 253
You can see latest developments in this German article I posted earlier:
http://www.news.de/auto/855299426/st...eitssysteme/1/
this is probably system to be in new GS... It acts sooner, by itself and it will brake completely if it detects you fainted.
http://www.news.de/auto/855299426/st...eitssysteme/1/
this is probably system to be in new GS... It acts sooner, by itself and it will brake completely if it detects you fainted.
Driver
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 18
From: TX
I hope this comes through OK. This is from the owner's manual:
The pre-collision system is operational when
The pre-collision system off button is not pressed and the following conditions are
met:
●Pre-collision warning:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or oncoming vehicle
is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
●Pre-collision seat belts (operating conditions A):
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The system detects sudden braking or skidding.
• The front occupants are wearing a seat belt.
●Pre-collision seat belts (operating conditions B):
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 4 mph (5 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or oncoming vehicle
is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The front occupants are wearing a seat belt.
●Pre-collision brake assist:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or the vehicle running
ahead of you is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The brake pedal is depressed.
●Pre-collision braking:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or the vehicle running
ahead of you is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
●Suspension control:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 4 mph (5 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or the vehicle running
ahead of you is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
●Steering control:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or the vehicle running
ahead of you is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
●Pre-collision alert braking:
• The system determines that the driver is not facing forward, or that the driver’s
eyes are closed.
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 25 mph (40 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the vehicle running ahead of
you is greater than about 25 mph (40 km/h).
• The steering is not being turned.
The pre-collision system is operational when
The pre-collision system off button is not pressed and the following conditions are
met:
●Pre-collision warning:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or oncoming vehicle
is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
●Pre-collision seat belts (operating conditions A):
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The system detects sudden braking or skidding.
• The front occupants are wearing a seat belt.
●Pre-collision seat belts (operating conditions B):
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 4 mph (5 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or oncoming vehicle
is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The front occupants are wearing a seat belt.
●Pre-collision brake assist:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or the vehicle running
ahead of you is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The brake pedal is depressed.
●Pre-collision braking:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or the vehicle running
ahead of you is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
●Suspension control:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 4 mph (5 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or the vehicle running
ahead of you is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
●Steering control:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or the vehicle running
ahead of you is greater than about 19 mph (30 km/h).
●Pre-collision alert braking:
• The system determines that the driver is not facing forward, or that the driver’s
eyes are closed.
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 25 mph (40 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the vehicle running ahead of
you is greater than about 25 mph (40 km/h).
• The steering is not being turned.
Driver
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 18
From: TX
This is also from the manual:
PCS (Pre-Collision System)∗
◆ Pre-collision seat belts (front seat only)
If the pre-collision sensor detects that a collision is unavoidable, the
pre-collision system will retract the seat belt before the collision occurs.
The same will happen if the driver makes an emergency braking or
loses control of the vehicle. (→P. 32)
◆ Pre-collision brake assist
When there is a high possibility of a frontal collision, the system applies
greater braking force in relation to how strongly the brake pedal is
depressed.
◆ Pre-collision braking
When there is a high possibility of a frontal collision, the system warns
the driver using a warning light, warning display and buzzer. If the system
determines that a collision is unavoidable, the brakes are automatically
applied to reduce the collision speed.
Suspension control (if equipped)
When the system determines that a collision is unavoidable, the operation
of AVS (→P. 269) optimally controls the damping force of the
shock absorber.
◆ Steering control (if equipped)
�� Vehicles with VGRS
There is a high possibility of collision and if the steering wheel is operated,
the steering gear ratio is changed by VGRS to help improve the
response to steering input.
�� Vehicles with LDH
There is a high possibility of collision and if the steering wheel is operated,
the steering angles of the front and rear wheels and the heaviness
of the steering wheel are controlled by LDH, thus heightening responsiveness
in response to the steering operation.
◆ Driver monitor system (if equipped)
When the system determines that there is a possibility of a collision, and
either the driver is not facing forward or the driver’s eyes are closed,
PCS warnings are given in advance to warn the driver. If the system
determines that the conditions to operate pre-collision alert braking
have been met even when the possibility of a collision increases further,
pre-collision alert braking will operate.
PCS (Pre-Collision System)∗
◆ Pre-collision seat belts (front seat only)
If the pre-collision sensor detects that a collision is unavoidable, the
pre-collision system will retract the seat belt before the collision occurs.
The same will happen if the driver makes an emergency braking or
loses control of the vehicle. (→P. 32)
◆ Pre-collision brake assist
When there is a high possibility of a frontal collision, the system applies
greater braking force in relation to how strongly the brake pedal is
depressed.
◆ Pre-collision braking
When there is a high possibility of a frontal collision, the system warns
the driver using a warning light, warning display and buzzer. If the system
determines that a collision is unavoidable, the brakes are automatically
applied to reduce the collision speed.
Suspension control (if equipped)
When the system determines that a collision is unavoidable, the operation
of AVS (→P. 269) optimally controls the damping force of the
shock absorber.
◆ Steering control (if equipped)
�� Vehicles with VGRS
There is a high possibility of collision and if the steering wheel is operated,
the steering gear ratio is changed by VGRS to help improve the
response to steering input.
�� Vehicles with LDH
There is a high possibility of collision and if the steering wheel is operated,
the steering angles of the front and rear wheels and the heaviness
of the steering wheel are controlled by LDH, thus heightening responsiveness
in response to the steering operation.
◆ Driver monitor system (if equipped)
When the system determines that there is a possibility of a collision, and
either the driver is not facing forward or the driver’s eyes are closed,
PCS warnings are given in advance to warn the driver. If the system
determines that the conditions to operate pre-collision alert braking
have been met even when the possibility of a collision increases further,
pre-collision alert braking will operate.
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Driver
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 18
From: TX
That is correct. Lexus uses LED IR detectors that (theoretically) aren't affected by ambiant light or sunglasses. However, performance could be adversly affected if the sensor or the driver’s face is exposed to intense light such as sunlight.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 386
Likes: 57
From: NJ
I've got one on order with APCS on it and that's one of the reasons I ordered it. Along with Lane Assist and BSM it seems like an exceptionally safe car when equipped with the available safety options. You are correct in that information is hard to find but you can get more info by googling it..thanks for the videos. They were informative.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 386
Likes: 57
From: NJ
I hope this comes through OK. This is from the owner's manual:
The pre-collision system is operational when
The pre-collision system off button is not pressed and the following conditions are
met:
●Pre-collision warning:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or oncoming vehicle
is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
The pre-collision system is operational when
The pre-collision system off button is not pressed and the following conditions are
met:
●Pre-collision warning:
• Vehicle speed is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
• The speed at which your vehicle is approaching the obstacle or oncoming vehicle
is greater than about 10 mph (15 km/h).
AT WHAT DISTANCE?? This excerpt suggests that the PCS would be operational a mile away! Not likely.
So if my speed is 12 mph, and I'm closing on the car in front of me at 9 mph (i.e., he's rolling at 3 mph), I get NO WARNING??
The manual doesn't inspire confidence in the car... I sure hope it's wrong. Makes me wonder what else the manual is wrong on.
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