Are there any photos of the new gs body? If the release is going be within less than a year, shouldn't there be some spy shots? I haven't been able to find anything online for days/weeks.

 

No pictures of the new body yet. They will probably show the car in the next 4 - 6 months.

 

Yes you need the cameras for parallel parking. Not scratching the rims. I scratch my rims roughly once a year and it costs me $150 to fix it each time plus a ton of wasted time.

The side camera is so important to me, it does influence my decision. The cameras and the suspension together make the M56 dead to me.

 

Not that the M5/E63/GS F is a high volume sales segment, but if the GS F doesn't make well over 500 hp and compete very closely performance wise, it will be a waste of time.

The IS F competes closely within it's segment, even if it might not be the fastest in a straight line or on a track. Add in the interior and reliablity and you have a reason to consider it over the Germans.

If the GS F brings sub-500 or even low 500 hp, it will be in a segment by itself. The enthusiast will look at it being underpowered and slow compared to the MB or BMW. The non-enthusiast won't care or won't want that much power anyways.

 

Not everyone is blinded by insane horsepower in the sport sedan market. I don't consider my GS350 to be underpowered because I'm not racing E-Class AMG's on the street nor track. I'm not stupid enough to believe 300hp is the same as 500hp but when it comes to everyday usability, it gets the job done more than adequately.
I wouldn't want less than 250hp though...just because I enjoy spirited driving.

I'm not saying I would not want more power. I'm saying Lexus does not have to compete with the Germans in a horsepower war. The success of the next GS does not hinge on huge power.
It would be nice to have options though.
I'm more concerned about design than power. Oh how I would love a GS coupe!

 

^^ a case in point would be the new E class. Underpowered with only 268 horsepower. Same goes for the C class, and the GLK, and the M (V6). They all use the same 3.5 liter engine which is low in horsepower (if not the lowest) in their respective segments. However, they do sell very well.

 

I was specifically referring to the potential of a GS F.

Of course you're not racing E63's, that's not where the GS350 slots in. It's power is adequate for everyday driving. You are right, the success of the next gen GS does not hinge on a huge horsepower bump.

However, if Lexus does bring a GS F, it had better better be able to compete on a very close level with the E63/M5/RS6 or it will fail.

 

Light weight can cure that. The IS-F hits 60 in 4.5 and in some instances, 4.2 seconds. That's not far off what the M5 can do from it's previous generations. The leading car in the segment, in terms of acceleration is the CTS-V, and that thing is 4.0 or 3.9 seconds to 60. So even with the IS-F down over 100hp to that car, it's only a few tenths off in acceleration to 60. But to 100mph is different, but then again, you're not going to go much faster than that unless you track your car. I think Lexus will be plenty powerful. If they keep the weight at or close to what the IS-F currently is and improve power by 75-125hp you'll potentially have a 3700lb. car making 500hp, which is a better power to weight ratio than any of the current players including the CTS-V, XFR, E63 and probably the new M5. Now I wonder when Lexus joins the party, will Nissan (Infinity) do the same?

 

but most people in the m5/e63 market, sorry to say, hp numbers are a priority they look at. i am not saying if that's right or wrong, but that's how it goes. lexus wants to fight another big up hill one? sure. i am just not sure if it's worth it

 

you can put a lot of ifs in your statement, but i am not sure the likeliness of that happening.

and isf in general hits mid to high 4s, i don't think it hit low 4s very often.

but one thing i will predict, if gsf has less than 500hp, it's going to be very hard sell, no matter how some throws up performance numbers to try say otherwise.

when lexus isf debut, they intentionally put up a hp that's just above the m3. coincidence? not so much. lexus knew it. and the fact that lexus didn't make the isf lighter but instead put in a heavier v8 with more hp, that's another reference point

 

That's funny, people said the same thing about the LFA. Yet with 552HP it beats cars with over 600HP. There's nothing to say that HP is the ultimate thing. If that were the case the CTS-V would be the choice. But it's not. According to almost all the publications and tests I've read, the E63 is the better choice, that car having less than 520HP compared to over 550HP in the CTS-V. No matter how you look at it, HP isn't even mentioned much in commercials. The CTS-V commercial mentions 'fastest sedan' and says 0-60 in 3.9seconds. It doesn't go about bragging about how much horsepower it has though. So in reality, that argument you have is flawed. I doubt HP is such a big selling point. If that were the case the S63 or S65 would be blasting their facts that they have over 500 HP, but they don't. The C63 would brag how it has 450+hp, but they don't. HP doesn't sell cars. If it did that would be a key focal point in their adds. But it's usually not as big as things like 0-60, or 10 airbags, or 2.9%apr, or stupid stuff like that to get people in the dealership. Feel sells cars, not how much HP the thing has. You go in and take a test drive and get to hit 100mph? I doubt it. So 0-60, steering feel, cabin noise, seat comfort, ergonomics etc. THOSE are what sell the car. Seeing as how the GS-F will more than likely be the least selling model, I'm not convinced they'll have troubles pushing them off the lot if 'doesn't have over 500HP'. That's just stupid to think. Who cares what magazines say, they crack on Lexus and Toyota all the time, yet they continue to sell, and sell well!

 

And the car is being released in June 2011?

 

This.

Also @ TF109, the GS F won't be sniffing in the same rarified air that LFA does, things are different down here.

 

Not sure where you heard June...pretty sure the discussion on here has been Feb-Apr 2011.

 

Pretty sure that was me.