4GS mega thread (UPDATED; preview drives, specs, more interior pics)
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,471
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From: SF
If they want to increase torque, why would they DECREASE displacement? Also, 450hp isn't going to cut it in that market segment, no way no how. Any less than 500hp, srsly, don't bother. even at that power level, I doubt it'd ring in close to the 3500lb mark.
I like what I keep hearing about the torque vectoring diff though.
I like what I keep hearing about the torque vectoring diff though.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 897
Likes: 11
From: ON
Lexus GS-F to get LFA V10 power
Lexus is planning to take on the BMW M5 with a super-saloon version of the GS, powered by the LFA’s V10, and will follow up that car with a new SC aimed at the likes of the Mercedes SL.
The new SC will be unveiled in mid-2014, although the current car is due to finish production this July, leaving a four-year gap between the two cars. However, the next model will be a hybrid, powered by a 5.0-litre V8 and an electric motor driving the rear wheels only.
Lexus engineers are working on reducing the engine’s capacity by around 200cc to 4.6 litres and power to 450bhp. The idea is to improve low-range torque, although even with the reduced power output the GS-F will become the most powerful road-going Japanese saloon ever built.
The GS-F will be fitted with Toyota’s first torque vectoring differential. Similar to the diff used on BMW’s M cars and the likes of the X6 SUV, the ‘torque split unit’ actively apportions drive between the rear wheels to aid handling. A similar system is also expected to be fitted to the new SC.
Before the new SC and GS-F arrive, Lexus will unveil its first hatchback at next month’s Geneva motor show.
The CT200h is a hybrid five-door and will go on sale in 2011. It’s based on the Prius platform but has been modified to provide a more sophisticated ride and handling; the Prius’s torsion beam rear suspension has been replaced by a double wishbone layout.
The powertrain electrics have been designed specifically for the Lexus, ensuring punchier power delivery from the electric motor. And the CT200h will have lithium ion batteries, making it the first Toyota product to do so.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=247739
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,471
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From: SF
That's why I said, if I can get that motor in sub 100k car, I am there. All the way.
This topic has been kicked around a few times already, and Lexus even directly said that the V10 engine is bespoke to the LFA. I think I also remember hearing that the engine is about 1/3 the cost of the entire car, so I can't see this being feasible for something like a GSF unless they price it into the atmosphere or take a loss on each one.
Plus, as much as I would love to see this engine in something more accessible, like a GSF, I think they will have more luck getting a competitive horsepower/torque number with a forced induction V8.
Plus, as much as I would love to see this engine in something more accessible, like a GSF, I think they will have more luck getting a competitive horsepower/torque number with a forced induction V8.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,751
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From: CA
Where are the people who said the V10 is only exclusive for the LFA thus commanding the $400k price tag? 
Honestly, everything about the LFA is out of this world that I am really disappointed that its engine will be shared with other Lexus cars even in the detuned version. It's a very good news for the GS fans but very BAD news for LF-A owners. I would be really pissed if I ordered one and received this news.
Unless the future GS looses some fat, 450hp is not enough to compete.
Honestly, everything about the LFA is out of this world that I am really disappointed that its engine will be shared with other Lexus cars even in the detuned version. It's a very good news for the GS fans but very BAD news for LF-A owners. I would be really pissed if I ordered one and received this news.
Unless the future GS looses some fat, 450hp is not enough to compete.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,459
Likes: 1
From: Makati, Philippines
I too am receptive of a performance variant of the next-gen GS. However, as mentioned, when most of your competitors are 500 horses and up, it's hard to keep up.
So yeah, unless the GSF gets a huge diet, having power rating below 500 horses will leave you in the dust.
So yeah, unless the GSF gets a huge diet, having power rating below 500 horses will leave you in the dust.
a lot of things in this articles doesn't add up well. people from both sides can and will continue to fight over the topic until the end. a v10 with even less displacement and looking for more tq, that doesn't sound logical. i would think if they want to increase overall tq, they would increase the displacement.
and as people mentioned, lexus europe already said the v10 is only for lfa. and also someone pointed out before already that the lfa v10 design is not really suitable for other street cars under the lexus belt.
if they push out 450hp, it's going to be a really tough sell on the car. a v10 in the gsf, the price probably won't be south of 90k. for much less, you can get the c63 with the same power. for about the same price (a bit more), m5 and e63 will both offer north of 500hp. it's going to be very very tough for lexus to market the car. this is not like lfa where people look more from performance. in the m5 / e63 market, seriously, a lot of owners are about bragging rights. gsf with 450hp can hardly cut it.
from a performance point of view, if they even want the gsf to work with 450hp and able to hang with m5 and e63, the car has to be like what, 3500lb. looking at the isf, that's unlikely. a 4000lb machine with 450hp, i don't know...
i also hope the new sc will come sooner. a 4 yr wait (complete vacuum) is a big gap...
but then again, overall, toyota has a lot of other problems they have to deal with right now
and as people mentioned, lexus europe already said the v10 is only for lfa. and also someone pointed out before already that the lfa v10 design is not really suitable for other street cars under the lexus belt.
if they push out 450hp, it's going to be a really tough sell on the car. a v10 in the gsf, the price probably won't be south of 90k. for much less, you can get the c63 with the same power. for about the same price (a bit more), m5 and e63 will both offer north of 500hp. it's going to be very very tough for lexus to market the car. this is not like lfa where people look more from performance. in the m5 / e63 market, seriously, a lot of owners are about bragging rights. gsf with 450hp can hardly cut it.
from a performance point of view, if they even want the gsf to work with 450hp and able to hang with m5 and e63, the car has to be like what, 3500lb. looking at the isf, that's unlikely. a 4000lb machine with 450hp, i don't know...
i also hope the new sc will come sooner. a 4 yr wait (complete vacuum) is a big gap...
but then again, overall, toyota has a lot of other problems they have to deal with right now
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
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Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,545
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From: MO
I'm inclined to give 1SICKLEX more credence here.
He's been right about a lot of this stuff as far as Lexus is concerned. But I had to post the article just for discussion's sake.