BMW Legendary Handling?
06-08-11, 01:06 PM
#16
BMWs are so horribly unreliable that I could care less if they handle like a F1.... seriously, it's not like anyone buys a new BMW 5 series to track it... and I am sure no one buys a luxury Lexus to track it. I guess I don't see the craze in why people are so obsessed with BMW handling, or handling in general when they buy a relatively large sedan. There are much better cars for that. Given a choice, I'd pick a GS over a 5 series all day long.
06-08-11, 01:07 PM
#17
one of the complaints with F10 is that the new steering system is lacking in feel department. I've never driven it myself but that's what I've read in my Roundel magazine. However, considering the demographics of the target consumers for F10, it makes sense to have a little bit of disconnected feel than say M cars or even 3 series.
I have owned 3 3 series cars, but now at the age of 35 I find the steering to be too heavy and uncomfortable for day to day driving. The F10 steering is superb.
06-08-11, 01:28 PM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
not sure what you are smoking but your random BMW bashing made me laugh. I've driven a 530 several years ago. E39 528 or 530 is well balanced comapred to 540. meaning handling is much better despite an understeer, but that's expected with a car that weighs nearly 3,800lbs. Funny that you list the MY as (1997-2003), so which is it that you own?
I own the same 06 GS AWD and don't get me started with handling. They aren't horrible for family car standards but not even close to how you are making it out to be. I'd be petrified to take this car to the track. Maybe you should redefine your definition of 'handling'.
I own the same 06 GS AWD and don't get me started with handling. They aren't horrible for family car standards but not even close to how you are making it out to be. I'd be petrified to take this car to the track. Maybe you should redefine your definition of 'handling'.
I like BMWs (have owned 2) and would consider the F10 5 Series if the new GS doesn't do it for me. I'm sorry you are petrified of your GS, but my AWD with F-Sport sway bars handles great. I have fishtailed several times on exit ramps on the autobahn in my E39 at LOW speeds and the handling is nothing to write home about. Like I said, I want to see how it handles when I mount the 19 inch wheels with proper tires. The previous owner had B.S. tires on it when I bought it.
My old E30 handled well and was a pleasure to drive, so relax bro.
Last edited by jre002; 06-08-11 at 01:33 PM.
06-08-11, 04:49 PM
#19
Hey jre002...It amazes me the love/hate some forumers have for the BMW and Lexus when ever the topic comes up. But here's my 2 cents:
I have had 3 versions of the e39 with my last one being a 2002 530i with sport package. I traded it in for the 2008 GS350 RWD which I still own. I also have a (e60) 2008 528i with sport package which my wife now drives.
IMHO, I think the e 39 was (and can still be) a great touring sedan. If you have (or upgrade to) the sport package specifications AND maintain the alignment (every 20K or so) and change the strut and/sway bushings when needed (every 75K or so), keep decent tires (Michelins/Dunlops) balanced and inflated, you might find the character of the car much more sporting and to your liking (for me it was). Nevertheless, I was and still impressed with the luxury content of the Lexus GS and went ahead and got one.
My Lexus though, while way more powerful, never quite has the road feel and control the e39 or my current e-60 has. I mean this in context of "normal" or spirited daily driving on suburban roads. I have already upgraded my Lexus to the F sport sways/springs/ and custom exhaust. Still, I miss the feel and sound of my old e39....so I just take the e60 out for a spin.
Those other forumers talking about extremes, really ought to compare the IS F Sport and the M3...both are worthwhile and respectable cars, IMO.
The new BMW F10? Take a look and drive them as soon as you can . Be sure to check out the one equipped with the 535i with the "M-Sport" package if you can. If setting your sights lower. The only drawback I can see with the new f10 is that BMW has now implemented electric power steering, numbing most of the road feel the previous models had. Its more "Lexus" like in steering feel (lol). The other drawback is BMW has increased their pricing so its easily $10-15K more than a Lexus GS.
Even so, when its time to trade in the Lexus, the new F10 will be on the list as well as the new 2013? Lexus GS...we'll see.
I have had 3 versions of the e39 with my last one being a 2002 530i with sport package. I traded it in for the 2008 GS350 RWD which I still own. I also have a (e60) 2008 528i with sport package which my wife now drives.
IMHO, I think the e 39 was (and can still be) a great touring sedan. If you have (or upgrade to) the sport package specifications AND maintain the alignment (every 20K or so) and change the strut and/sway bushings when needed (every 75K or so), keep decent tires (Michelins/Dunlops) balanced and inflated, you might find the character of the car much more sporting and to your liking (for me it was). Nevertheless, I was and still impressed with the luxury content of the Lexus GS and went ahead and got one.
My Lexus though, while way more powerful, never quite has the road feel and control the e39 or my current e-60 has. I mean this in context of "normal" or spirited daily driving on suburban roads. I have already upgraded my Lexus to the F sport sways/springs/ and custom exhaust. Still, I miss the feel and sound of my old e39....so I just take the e60 out for a spin.
Those other forumers talking about extremes, really ought to compare the IS F Sport and the M3...both are worthwhile and respectable cars, IMO.
The new BMW F10? Take a look and drive them as soon as you can . Be sure to check out the one equipped with the 535i with the "M-Sport" package if you can. If setting your sights lower. The only drawback I can see with the new f10 is that BMW has now implemented electric power steering, numbing most of the road feel the previous models had. Its more "Lexus" like in steering feel (lol). The other drawback is BMW has increased their pricing so its easily $10-15K more than a Lexus GS.
Even so, when its time to trade in the Lexus, the new F10 will be on the list as well as the new 2013? Lexus GS...we'll see.
06-08-11, 05:02 PM
#20
Hey jre002...It amazes me the love/hate some forumers have for the BMW and Lexus when ever the topic comes up. But here's my 2 cents:
I have had 3 versions of the e39 with my last one being a 2002 530i with sport package. I traded it in for the 2008 GS350 RWD which I still own. I also have a (e60) 2008 528i with sport package which my wife now drives.
IMHO, I think the e 39 was (and can still be) a great touring sedan. If you have (or upgrade to) the sport package specifications AND maintain the alignment (every 20K or so) and change the strut and/sway bushings when needed (every 75K or so), keep decent tires (Michelins/Dunlops) balanced and inflated, you might find the character of the car much more sporting and to your liking (for me it was). Nevertheless, I was and still impressed with the luxury content of the Lexus GS and went ahead and got one.
My Lexus though, while way more powerful, never quite has the road feel and control the e39 or my current e-60 has. I mean this in context of "normal" or spirited daily driving on suburban roads. I have already upgraded my Lexus to the F sport sways/springs/ and custom exhaust. Still, I miss the feel and sound of my old e39....so I just take the e60 out for a spin.
Those other forumers talking about extremes, really ought to compare the IS F Sport and the M3...both are worthwhile and respectable cars, IMO.
The new BMW F10? Take a look and drive them as soon as you can . Be sure to check out the one equipped with the 535i with the "M-Sport" package if you can. If setting your sights lower. The only drawback I can see with the new f10 is that BMW has now implemented electric power steering, numbing most of the road feel the previous models had. Its more "Lexus" like in steering feel (lol). The other drawback is BMW has increased their pricing so its easily $10-15K more than a Lexus GS.
Even so, when its time to trade in the Lexus, the new F10 will be on the list as well as the new 2013? Lexus GS...we'll see.
I have had 3 versions of the e39 with my last one being a 2002 530i with sport package. I traded it in for the 2008 GS350 RWD which I still own. I also have a (e60) 2008 528i with sport package which my wife now drives.
IMHO, I think the e 39 was (and can still be) a great touring sedan. If you have (or upgrade to) the sport package specifications AND maintain the alignment (every 20K or so) and change the strut and/sway bushings when needed (every 75K or so), keep decent tires (Michelins/Dunlops) balanced and inflated, you might find the character of the car much more sporting and to your liking (for me it was). Nevertheless, I was and still impressed with the luxury content of the Lexus GS and went ahead and got one.
My Lexus though, while way more powerful, never quite has the road feel and control the e39 or my current e-60 has. I mean this in context of "normal" or spirited daily driving on suburban roads. I have already upgraded my Lexus to the F sport sways/springs/ and custom exhaust. Still, I miss the feel and sound of my old e39....so I just take the e60 out for a spin.
Those other forumers talking about extremes, really ought to compare the IS F Sport and the M3...both are worthwhile and respectable cars, IMO.
The new BMW F10? Take a look and drive them as soon as you can . Be sure to check out the one equipped with the 535i with the "M-Sport" package if you can. If setting your sights lower. The only drawback I can see with the new f10 is that BMW has now implemented electric power steering, numbing most of the road feel the previous models had. Its more "Lexus" like in steering feel (lol). The other drawback is BMW has increased their pricing so its easily $10-15K more than a Lexus GS.
Even so, when its time to trade in the Lexus, the new F10 will be on the list as well as the new 2013? Lexus GS...we'll see.
06-08-11, 08:42 PM
#21
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Hey jre002...It amazes me the love/hate some forumers have for the BMW and Lexus when ever the topic comes up. But here's my 2 cents:
I have had 3 versions of the e39 with my last one being a 2002 530i with sport package. I traded it in for the 2008 GS350 RWD which I still own. I also have a (e60) 2008 528i with sport package which my wife now drives.
IMHO, I think the e 39 was (and can still be) a great touring sedan. If you have (or upgrade to) the sport package specifications AND maintain the alignment (every 20K or so) and change the strut and/sway bushings when needed (every 75K or so), keep decent tires (Michelins/Dunlops) balanced and inflated, you might find the character of the car much more sporting and to your liking (for me it was). Nevertheless, I was and still impressed with the luxury content of the Lexus GS and went ahead and got one.
My Lexus though, while way more powerful, never quite has the road feel and control the e39 or my current e-60 has. I mean this in context of "normal" or spirited daily driving on suburban roads. I have already upgraded my Lexus to the F sport sways/springs/ and custom exhaust. Still, I miss the feel and sound of my old e39....so I just take the e60 out for a spin.
Those other forumers talking about extremes, really ought to compare the IS F Sport and the M3...both are worthwhile and respectable cars, IMO.
The new BMW F10? Take a look and drive them as soon as you can . Be sure to check out the one equipped with the 535i with the "M-Sport" package if you can. If setting your sights lower. The only drawback I can see with the new f10 is that BMW has now implemented electric power steering, numbing most of the road feel the previous models had. Its more "Lexus" like in steering feel (lol). The other drawback is BMW has increased their pricing so its easily $10-15K more than a Lexus GS.
Even so, when its time to trade in the Lexus, the new F10 will be on the list as well as the new 2013? Lexus GS...we'll see.
I have had 3 versions of the e39 with my last one being a 2002 530i with sport package. I traded it in for the 2008 GS350 RWD which I still own. I also have a (e60) 2008 528i with sport package which my wife now drives.
IMHO, I think the e 39 was (and can still be) a great touring sedan. If you have (or upgrade to) the sport package specifications AND maintain the alignment (every 20K or so) and change the strut and/sway bushings when needed (every 75K or so), keep decent tires (Michelins/Dunlops) balanced and inflated, you might find the character of the car much more sporting and to your liking (for me it was). Nevertheless, I was and still impressed with the luxury content of the Lexus GS and went ahead and got one.
My Lexus though, while way more powerful, never quite has the road feel and control the e39 or my current e-60 has. I mean this in context of "normal" or spirited daily driving on suburban roads. I have already upgraded my Lexus to the F sport sways/springs/ and custom exhaust. Still, I miss the feel and sound of my old e39....so I just take the e60 out for a spin.
Those other forumers talking about extremes, really ought to compare the IS F Sport and the M3...both are worthwhile and respectable cars, IMO.
The new BMW F10? Take a look and drive them as soon as you can . Be sure to check out the one equipped with the 535i with the "M-Sport" package if you can. If setting your sights lower. The only drawback I can see with the new f10 is that BMW has now implemented electric power steering, numbing most of the road feel the previous models had. Its more "Lexus" like in steering feel (lol). The other drawback is BMW has increased their pricing so its easily $10-15K more than a Lexus GS.
Even so, when its time to trade in the Lexus, the new F10 will be on the list as well as the new 2013? Lexus GS...we'll see.
I've seen the F10 on the road in Germany since before it was released in the states. Didn't like it at first but now it's really grown on me. There's a dark grey 550i parked outside of my office everyday with the sport body kit and it looks sharp. Right now, I'm going to mess with the E39 until my GS gets shipped over here. I've always loved the E39 body style, so when I had the chance to beat one around I jumped on it. They really need to be maintained constantly though. Had to change a lot of bushings and suspension components to pass the ridiculously stringent US gov't inspection. Passed the German TuV easily, but the US made me change every freaking thing to new.
06-08-11, 10:07 PM
#22
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Very few sedans are any good at being fast.. in straight line, cornering, etc. If you're buying a luxury car, buy it because it's damn comfortable inside and has enough features to keep you entertained. If you're into performance, I'd recommend saving your money and buying a 2nd car.
M3, M5, M6, AMG, IS-F, etc. are all pretty impressive considering they're heavy luxury cars and are fun as hell to drive but I would NEVER buy one of these and expect it to be anything to even swing a stick at when placed next to a car that's designed specifically for gut wrenching handling and performance in a sleek-styled shell, such as GTR, porsche, z06/zr1, viper, supra, lambo, ferrari, etc. I'm not bashing sedans by any means (I had an Evo that would've walked just about every car I just listed) but I can't stand it when people drive luxury cars like they just set the record on the Nurburgring.
Just my opinion of course.. I'm sure there'll be many who disagree. I just can't convince myself to tear into something as nice and well rounded from the factory like a luxury sedan. Audio, Tint, Suspension(maybe), tasteful wheels.. but other than that, I'd save my money and spend it in other areas.
M3, M5, M6, AMG, IS-F, etc. are all pretty impressive considering they're heavy luxury cars and are fun as hell to drive but I would NEVER buy one of these and expect it to be anything to even swing a stick at when placed next to a car that's designed specifically for gut wrenching handling and performance in a sleek-styled shell, such as GTR, porsche, z06/zr1, viper, supra, lambo, ferrari, etc. I'm not bashing sedans by any means (I had an Evo that would've walked just about every car I just listed) but I can't stand it when people drive luxury cars like they just set the record on the Nurburgring.
Just my opinion of course.. I'm sure there'll be many who disagree. I just can't convince myself to tear into something as nice and well rounded from the factory like a luxury sedan. Audio, Tint, Suspension(maybe), tasteful wheels.. but other than that, I'd save my money and spend it in other areas.
06-08-11, 10:34 PM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Very few sedans are any good at being fast.. in straight line, cornering, etc. If you're buying a luxury car, buy it because it's damn comfortable inside and has enough features to keep you entertained. If you're into performance, I'd recommend saving your money and buying a 2nd car.
M3, M5, M6, AMG, IS-F, etc. are all pretty impressive considering they're heavy luxury cars and are fun as hell to drive but I would NEVER buy one of these and expect it to be anything to even swing a stick at when placed next to a car that's designed specifically for gut wrenching handling and performance in a sleek-styled shell, such as GTR, porsche, z06/zr1, viper, supra, lambo, ferrari, etc. I'm not bashing sedans by any means (I had an Evo that would've walked just about every car I just listed) but I can't stand it when people drive luxury cars like they just set the record on the Nurburgring.
Just my opinion of course.. I'm sure there'll be many who disagree. I just can't convince myself to tear into something as nice and well rounded from the factory like a luxury sedan. Audio, Tint, Suspension(maybe), tasteful wheels.. but other than that, I'd save my money and spend it in other areas.
M3, M5, M6, AMG, IS-F, etc. are all pretty impressive considering they're heavy luxury cars and are fun as hell to drive but I would NEVER buy one of these and expect it to be anything to even swing a stick at when placed next to a car that's designed specifically for gut wrenching handling and performance in a sleek-styled shell, such as GTR, porsche, z06/zr1, viper, supra, lambo, ferrari, etc. I'm not bashing sedans by any means (I had an Evo that would've walked just about every car I just listed) but I can't stand it when people drive luxury cars like they just set the record on the Nurburgring.
Just my opinion of course.. I'm sure there'll be many who disagree. I just can't convince myself to tear into something as nice and well rounded from the factory like a luxury sedan. Audio, Tint, Suspension(maybe), tasteful wheels.. but other than that, I'd save my money and spend it in other areas.
06-09-11, 03:23 PM
#25
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I currently drive a 2007 GS 350. I had the '01 3 series and drove my friend's '01 5 series often. Let me tell you, the GS handling is not near the level of the BMW. I am a Lexus fan and even work at Lexus but the handling in the '01 3 and 5 series are great. I love everything about my current GS EXCEPT for the handling. I have gotten used to it as I drive it more and more but still it is something that you get adjusted to whereas the BMW was straight glue on the road. Now talk about reliability, luxury, comfort, etc., the GS is much MUCH better in my opinion.
The only thing I believe the GS loses at is handling and maybe girls knowing the brand as more "luxury/baller" haha.
The only thing I believe the GS loses at is handling and maybe girls knowing the brand as more "luxury/baller" haha.
06-09-11, 03:49 PM
#26
I test drove a 650 about 3 months ago. The sales guy was preparing me for the "ride of my life." He kept telling me how much I was gonna enjoy it and he just knew I would be so smitten I'd drive it off the lot.
While in the car he encouraged me to hit it several times. At the 3rd prompting, I gave him what he asked for. I hit it, and hit it some more. When done I was amazed.....but not as expected. I was amazed that although it handled nicely, I didn't think it was so superhumanly above my lowered and wheeled GS. Better, yes but not what you read in all the mags.
Much of the reason is probably that I like a luxury/sport riding car.
Maybe the 3 series has this magical handling everyone keeps talking about. Since that car is kinda small, never had a desire to try it. Maybe I will.
While in the car he encouraged me to hit it several times. At the 3rd prompting, I gave him what he asked for. I hit it, and hit it some more. When done I was amazed.....but not as expected. I was amazed that although it handled nicely, I didn't think it was so superhumanly above my lowered and wheeled GS. Better, yes but not what you read in all the mags.
Much of the reason is probably that I like a luxury/sport riding car.
Maybe the 3 series has this magical handling everyone keeps talking about. Since that car is kinda small, never had a desire to try it. Maybe I will.
06-09-11, 10:18 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
06-09-11, 10:19 PM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I currently drive a 2007 GS 350. I had the '01 3 series and drove my friend's '01 5 series often. Let me tell you, the GS handling is not near the level of the BMW. I am a Lexus fan and even work at Lexus but the handling in the '01 3 and 5 series are great. I love everything about my current GS EXCEPT for the handling. I have gotten used to it as I drive it more and more but still it is something that you get adjusted to whereas the BMW was straight glue on the road. Now talk about reliability, luxury, comfort, etc., the GS is much MUCH better in my opinion.
The only thing I believe the GS loses at is handling and maybe girls knowing the brand as more "luxury/baller" haha.
The only thing I believe the GS loses at is handling and maybe girls knowing the brand as more "luxury/baller" haha.
06-09-11, 10:23 PM
#29
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I test drove a 650 about 3 months ago. The sales guy was preparing me for the "ride of my life." He kept telling me how much I was gonna enjoy it and he just knew I would be so smitten I'd drive it off the lot.
While in the car he encouraged me to hit it several times. At the 3rd prompting, I gave him what he asked for. I hit it, and hit it some more. When done I was amazed.....but not as expected. I was amazed that although it handled nicely, I didn't think it was so superhumanly above my lowered and wheeled GS. Better, yes but not what you read in all the mags.
Much of the reason is probably that I like a luxury/sport riding car.
Maybe the 3 series has this magical handling everyone keeps talking about. Since that car is kinda small, never had a desire to try it. Maybe I will.
While in the car he encouraged me to hit it several times. At the 3rd prompting, I gave him what he asked for. I hit it, and hit it some more. When done I was amazed.....but not as expected. I was amazed that although it handled nicely, I didn't think it was so superhumanly above my lowered and wheeled GS. Better, yes but not what you read in all the mags.
Much of the reason is probably that I like a luxury/sport riding car.
Maybe the 3 series has this magical handling everyone keeps talking about. Since that car is kinda small, never had a desire to try it. Maybe I will.
06-10-11, 03:35 AM
#30
I just love how it handles and responds now!