With the air induction and exhaust exit and Tune you have. Have the upper and lower intake manifold ported and my guess would be at lest 18 - 25hp more. I know there will be dispute until from experience someone does it, and Dynos, tunes and track test.

 

Instead of porting the intake manifolds, why not purchase an LS460 intake manifold and plenum. The GS460 and LS460 share the same motor, but I think they have different intake manifolds. There is up to 40 horsepower difference

 

I actually looked it up! It shows they share the same intake manifolds, I was incorrect in my last post.

The exhaust manifolds on the other hand are different, the GS460 looks very restrictive single output vs the LS has dual tubes into the catalytic. Maybe buy some used pair of exhaust manifolds and mount them to the GS, may need to cut and weld the flanges at the end

 

Yea I kinda thought that it was incorrect, lol!. Is why I said just get the GS460 Upper and lower ported. With exhaust, you want to try to get the air coming end, with all the exhaust going out. You would be surprised at what better flowing intake does in low, mid and high. Those are actually some very good 0-6- times you got!

If going exhaust just go ahead and get long tube, largest diameter headers you can get, equal length. Those actually are some very good 0-60's considering.

 

Since all of this is being discussed here. I decided to start sifting through part #'s. And came up with a few curious things.

1. the 1UR-FSE has several cylinder head supersessions. So there are actually 6 different part #'s for the cylinder head itself. While several are likely very similar it does make one wonder if one of the #'s has an advantage.

2. The possibility of using an ISF intake manifold. It is a different part #. Granted ive not had a chance to see either the 1UR or any 2UR apart. The only possible telling sign I see is that the intake manifold gasket is different. Though the cylinder head gasket is the same between the 2 engines. Which maybe opens up a top end swap for those that need to go through their valve seals could be good time to do it? lol

3. Following on the heads. It looks like the cams and vvt actuators are different. So unsure what can be used or swapped here. We already knew heads themselves were different.

Fun facts

2UR FSE & 2UR GSE rods and pistons are the same. Cranks are different. So looks like the extra compression in the ISF over the LS600H comes from the heads and not a different piston design.

Need to do more digging. But this could be good info for those like me who have some miles on their cars and would like to freshen them up but at the same time maybe do an OEM+ style engine. So my initial thoughts on this are.... And this mightve been mentioned somewhere else. That the 460 might be able to use an ISF shortblock with the 460 top end. Unsure about a complete ISF engine due to the sheer amount of different parts in the ISF heads and intake manifold.

Bit random but hey seemed like a place to bring it all up.

 

Ok so........

1. Yes perhaps there is 1 or 3 cylinder heads that might flow better but not you are needing alot of other things to match and fit. Most Racing classes that do not allow cylinder head modification will get as many a s 20 bone stock heads and flow them too see which flows the best, legally not modifying them being stock cylinder heads.

2. 3. & Fun Facts.

You are going to be close to balancing and blueprinting a motor build, to find a fit for all those swaps, and I can almost ensure you there are going to be some things that just don't work out in addition too finding a 2UR GSE block and other parts. Last I looked a 2UR GSE motor used was around $11k to buy. The GSE F engine is designed by and built by Yamaha. You could likely just build the 2UR FSE from the crank up lighen, polish, Ti stroker rods, over bore pistons, cams, hours into the head with bigger valves and the perfect squish and deck to get more bank for you buck.

As a example of why I am saying this. Here is a from stock built 3.5 Bored & Stroked to 4.0 GS350 2GR-FSE motor to 480hp. A stock 2GR-FSE is about 265hp on the dyno. For comparison the GS, IS, RC F V8 makes about 375 on a dyno stock.

​​​​​​​See bottom of page on link.
http://www.lynxae.co.uk/ForSale-1.htmToyota works developed Lexus IS 350 production 3.5L V6 2GR-FSE engines modified to a 4.0L all steel race engine.

3x 4.0L turbo race engines (Toyota works developed Lexus IS 350 production 3.5L V6 2GR-FSE engine modified to a 4.0L all steel race engine)
1x 4.0L formally aspirated race engine (Toyota works developed Lexus IS 350 production 3.5L V6 2GR-FSE engine modified to a 4.0L all steel race engine)

4.0 Litre V6 N/A Specification
• Bored & Stroked all Steel Crank & Rods
• Fully Dressed Weight: 145 Kgs.
• 6 Direct Injectors 6 Indirect Injectors
• CNC Ported 24 Valve Alloy Cylinder Heads
• 480+ BHP @ 8,500 RPM
• 350+ Ft Lbs Torque @ 5,500 RPM
• EFI Technology ECU with Traction Control
• Toyota Engine Developed for 24 hrs Racing

 

So the likely problem with using the 2UR-FSE is the block itself. As it is setup for the hybrid system. As the FSE block and GSE block are indeed different. On the cylinder head part. To use one of the superseded part numbers there would be no extra parts beyond what is needed to a typical head gasket job tty bolts,gaskets, & etc. So use the ISF top end? Well thats hard to say as we dont know what might change between sensors and actuators. Yes a used 2UR-GSE is in the 9k+ range. But sometimes youll find shortblocks in good condition in the 2-3k range. And from the part numbers it looks like a 2UR-GSE shortblock with a 1UR-FSE top end is feasible. As far as it being near the cost of a built engine I guess that depends on whose building it. As many of the UR parts dont seem to have aftermarket support. Sure the basics do but not once you get down to the nitty gritty of it. Granted all of this is based off of about 20 minutes of going through part #'s on 3 different platforms. Also Id be willing to bet based on those part #s that you would probably want the GSE crank over the FSE crank. And those cranks alone from Lexus are around 3k. So about the price of a good used shortblock. And remember you would have the 1UR out of the car to source many parts from as well which would keep costs down. In the end this would possible be a more cost effective way of adding some bottom and mid range grunt without taking away from what the car is. As information on a hybrid such as this is scarce this is of course more speculation than fact. Was just something I started digging into.

 

Again IMO by the time you try to sail all the uncharted territory and buy the parts, its would be better to just build your own 2UR FSE up. Its not that expensive to have custom Cams, pistons and rods made.

Much less that pipe dreaming a bunch of parts that you have no idea if they will match up or not with so many little crucial things that may not work at the end. Let alone the cost of getting the F Motor parts you don't know will work or not. The example is the Built V6 2GR I posted.

 

My main focus was on a GSE shortblock with a FSE topend. Which seems very likely as the headgaskets, head bolts, timing cover gaskets etc etc etc are all the same.

The 2ur fse uses the same pistons and rods as the GSE. But it uses 1ur heads.

Unless you're planning high hp numbers theres zero reason to go through all the effort you're speaking of. Have you yourself ever ordered custom pistons,rods, and cams? The cams alone are over 1100. Rods will be easily over 700 for anything halfway decent. Pistons for something good if you find a good deal probably another 1000 (and that doesnt cover stuff like coatings). And we havent even covered bearings, block, crank, machining, balancing etc. Sorry but that route makes zero sense. Especially from the view point I'm coming from and have already mentioned.

 

Is your dream so dream what you want. lol!
I guess Im confused at what your build plan you are talking about would be? I was Not talking engine removal and main engine removal parts changes.

1st you mentioned "the 1UR-FSE has several cylinder head supersessions."
Then you said "The possibility of using an ISF intake manifold". And "So unsure what can be used or swapped here."
Next it was - "That the 460 might be able to use an ISF shortblock with the 460 top end. Unsure about a complete ISF engine due to the sheer amount of different parts in the ISF heads and intake manifold"
Then you said - "On the cylinder head part. To use one of the superseded part numbers there would be no extra parts beyond what is needed to a typical head gasket job tty bolts,gaskets, & etc. So use the ISF top end? Well thats hard to say as we dont know what might change between sensors and actuators."
Moved to? - "And remember you would have the 1UR out of the car to source many parts from as well which would keep costs down. And those cranks alone from Lexus are around 3k. So about the price of a good used shortblock."

Ok help me out here ok? So we need a 2UR GSE block. So say we find one for less than half this cost. Now we put the Stock FSE top end on right?
https://www.pacificmotors.com/auto-p...9-lc500-18-19/

And we have to remove and reinstall the engine. So what's your guesstimate at the hp gained?

Yes I built a few motors. No myself but assembled the parts and sent out the machine work, for a good builder to assemble for me. A set of decent custom pistons can be had for $700, 4 regrind cams $400, Rods as you said about $700 for halfway decent that hold up. Heads ported $600 depending on Stage 1, 2 or 3. At least you know the build will go together. I never suggested engine removal mods, you did. With your short block changes could be other custom machined parts need if you still want your a/c and/or other to work? Also the cost of the 1UZ

How certain are you that because the head gaskets are the same that you wont have piston to valve clearance problems, and deck and squish height issues, capable engine and sensor management? I understand what you are trying to say to do, but I merely mention a simple $200 improvement of flow porting the upper and lower intake manifold to increase the existing mods of intake, exhaust, Tune. Instead of buying some $400 + Red Bullets Quantum solenoids that have not been know to work. Not sure why you took it here and then spun it to me?

 

Dont see where the issue is? I've mentioned the parts that were identical and that ive gone through those numbers to confirm they are the same part. I mentioned different possibilities yes. And do you know what a superceded part is? You seem unsure on that. A superceded part is more typically a vendor change or a mild revision for whatever reason. Sometimes nothing really changed. Though sometimes one will make more power. But typically they are a stock replacement. So usually all the original parts will swap over. I never mentioned the solenoids. Nor do I believe in them.

But as for the parts... so let's go over this..
Head gaskets . The same on all 3 of the discussed engines.
Crank is different between all 3 (makes sense considering displacement and the addition of a hybrid setup).
Rods are the same in both 2ur's
Pistons are the same in both 2urs.
Stroke is the same in both 2urs
2ur fse use 1ur fse heads
2 ur gse use the yamaha heads. Which I haven't compared intake manifold gaskets. However they do have different part #'s. So that might be out.
All 3 use the same front cover gasket so that should help part of the accessories. But I haven't confirmed on any potential side brackets.

As far as your pricing as theres only 1 set of available cams I could find for the UR I doubt you could do the regrinds without knowing cam specs and spending a bit of time figuring that out. Which of course cost more money. The available cams are 1100 dollars. With those cams admitting they add power mainly above 6500rpms. I've also not seen heads ported that cheap in a while. With most running 1500 or higher (hand port with cnc porting costing more typically).

As far as everything working together. Since youd be reusing so much fse topend a lot of it would come down to a tune to dial it in.

I'm not proposing a full engine swap. Which would more than likely include much more work. So your 6700 dollar engine would likely turn into even more. Your built engine would cost more than what I'm proposing by a long shot. What I'm essentially proposing is essentially 1.5jz type of setup. Youd gain some power and a nicer mid range. Hard to say power wise. It would be a bit less than an ISF due to lower compression and presumably better flowing heads.

While I do agree porting as well as port matching is almost a good way to go, what I'm proposing is a potential cost effective way to put a lower mileage engine into the car while at the same time adding some power.

The same company you listed actually occasionally sells GSE shortblocks.

Yes youd need to remove the engine. For some I know that would be an issue. For me its not.

Sorry of my bouncing all over the place during mid thought threw you off. A lot of it was written while I read through lexus part numbers.

 

If you want easy hp, that wont cost a ton. Remove the heads, get them ported, shave the heads to increase the compression, buy some arp head bolts, stock head gasket, find a cam.

But I think the major hp killer is the exhaust manifolds, you guys are squeezing 4 exhaust ports into a tiny outlet. If you have the welding ability to do tig, you can easily make a new better exhaust manifold

 

Hey no problem. Yea everybody has a different hook on build stuff. I still like my way best! I don't think anything is wrong with any of the options. Whatever floats Your Boat.

 

I already said in pervious post, about doing the heads, I was assuming shaving 30thousands or more and cams.

When you say exhaust Manifolds are you talking the Stock Headers? Or head exhaust ports? Aren't there Production performance Headers already out there?

I've actually heard that with a good head port and Valve job, you can get away with just using better cams on the exhaust side only and get a nice gain. I know a few who did it. I had ran a 150 shot progressive Zex N02 kit on a 1UZ with a Tune before some years back. Now that was a real nice gain.

 

30 thou off the heads seems like a lot, you might have valve/piston clearance issue, I would have a machine shop measure the piston top out and the valve opened

A good mild port job, you can do it yourself, ive done it with other cars in the past. Time consuming and messy, but rewarding. You can do it to the inlet/ends of the intake manifold, throttle body (aslong as you dont touch the sealing of the butterfly) but you can grind down the butterflies shaft to make it thinner.

I am aware of exhaust manifolds already out, but arent they super pricey?

If this is a daily driver, I would avoid running nitrous, that stuff takes a toll on your internals, especially if you plan on bumping up the compression from shaving the heads. But the cams, headers, port work, and a good tune with advanced ign timing and maybe vvti timing, you might be able to gain 60-100hp in a v8.