Returning a New Car
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Florida
Returning a New Car
I purchased a new 2008 GS 350 RWD Nav/ML/Xm 48 hours ago. After 100 miles in this car I realize my back can't handle the driver's seat. Despite every attempt to get comfortable I get severe back pain after 5-10 minutes in the front seat.
My question relates to the signed contract. The dealer refuses to let me exchange my new GS 350 (300 miles on it) for another Lexus without taking a major loss. The signed contract was "wrong" and listed the sales price as $96,000 with my owing the dealer $50,000. The dealer is sending me a new "correct" contract to sign. Do I have a legal loop-hole here to make the dealer take the car back? I tried being reasonable by asking for a $1,000 loss AND buying another Lexus but the dealer said "no." Should I hire a lawyer and try to use the incorrect initial contract to get out of the car altogether?
My question relates to the signed contract. The dealer refuses to let me exchange my new GS 350 (300 miles on it) for another Lexus without taking a major loss. The signed contract was "wrong" and listed the sales price as $96,000 with my owing the dealer $50,000. The dealer is sending me a new "correct" contract to sign. Do I have a legal loop-hole here to make the dealer take the car back? I tried being reasonable by asking for a $1,000 loss AND buying another Lexus but the dealer said "no." Should I hire a lawyer and try to use the incorrect initial contract to get out of the car altogether?
Wow. lol, how did you overlook that?! When I bought my car, I checked everything and looked it over twice.
I think you should keep the car. Might want to look into something that will help you back that can be placed over the seat. I noticed in my dad's RX300 and my GS, the lumber support really isn't there but I've learned to live with it. Look around for something that will help with lumber support. I am taking a wild guess, but its prolly lumber support that you are talking about?
I think you should keep the car. Might want to look into something that will help you back that can be placed over the seat. I noticed in my dad's RX300 and my GS, the lumber support really isn't there but I've learned to live with it. Look around for something that will help with lumber support. I am taking a wild guess, but its prolly lumber support that you are talking about?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,036
Likes: 6
From: London UK
Try adjusting the seat so that your knees are lower then your hips.
Personally im on the side of the dealer, because thats what test drives are for and you've only had the car 2 days and I doubt you've been driving it non stop for 48 hours.
Personally im on the side of the dealer, because thats what test drives are for and you've only had the car 2 days and I doubt you've been driving it non stop for 48 hours.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,541
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From: nj
When I got my GS last year, it took me almost a month to get used to AWD hump next to the acceleration pedal. It takes a little bit of time, but than you get used to it 
The same with comfy adjustment of the seat. It probably has to do a lot with your previous car and how you got used to its seat.
And its very typical if you change your mind about your new car, to take a big hit. I know someone over at ES forum who didn't like the color and exchanged it for another one. He took a big hit, but than used it to his advantage to work out a killer deal on a replacement. If you are trying to stay within GS price range, you can look into ES or RX, both of which have a much comfy seats.
The same with comfy adjustment of the seat. It probably has to do a lot with your previous car and how you got used to its seat.And its very typical if you change your mind about your new car, to take a big hit. I know someone over at ES forum who didn't like the color and exchanged it for another one. He took a big hit, but than used it to his advantage to work out a killer deal on a replacement. If you are trying to stay within GS price range, you can look into ES or RX, both of which have a much comfy seats.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 240
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From: Florida
Your on the side of being unreasonable? I offered to pay $1,000 for driving the car a total of 300 miles. 300 miles! Then, I would purchase another Lexus. The dealer can void my "deal" as my paperwork has not been processed yet. So, the car would be new and untitled.
Now, if a dealer offered you a $1,000 off your best deal on a mint new car with 300 miles on the odometer you wouldn't buy it? Why not be reasonable and just sell me another Lexus like the RX 350 for my wife?
Well, it comes down to "legal" now as my contract was NOT signed by anyone at the dealership and had the wrong numbers. I know I have a case against them and I plan on pursuing it.
As for my jumping through hoops so I don't cry after driving my car I will take a pass. Life is too short to put up with that. I can handle the small loss of money and look (very carefully) for a car with great seats.
If I wait longer and HOPE the seat problem resolves itself (lumbar cushion, etc.) I will take an even bigger hit in 6 months on a car with 2,000 miles because I won't be driving it much.
Now, if a dealer offered you a $1,000 off your best deal on a mint new car with 300 miles on the odometer you wouldn't buy it? Why not be reasonable and just sell me another Lexus like the RX 350 for my wife?
Well, it comes down to "legal" now as my contract was NOT signed by anyone at the dealership and had the wrong numbers. I know I have a case against them and I plan on pursuing it.
As for my jumping through hoops so I don't cry after driving my car I will take a pass. Life is too short to put up with that. I can handle the small loss of money and look (very carefully) for a car with great seats.
If I wait longer and HOPE the seat problem resolves itself (lumbar cushion, etc.) I will take an even bigger hit in 6 months on a car with 2,000 miles because I won't be driving it much.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,036
Likes: 6
From: London UK
Its not unreasonable. No one wants a brand new car that you've driven 300 miles in. So the dealer has to sell it as a used car at alot less. Besides who knows what you've done in it for the last two days.
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Georgia
In my experience, the mistake on the contract is not a legal loophole that you can take advantage of -- it's just a mistake that the dealer has the right to correct. Also, the fact the contract was not signed by the dealer is not legal grounds to declare the deal void -- most contracts are not signed by dealers. You could check with a lawyer, but he'll probably say the same thing.
You may be able to correct your back pain with devices available from auto parts dealers and "relax the back" stores. There are lumbar support pillows that strap to the seat back (much more effective than the car's lumbar adjustment), and inflatable devices to provide side support.
I realize everyone is different, but I have found the seats on my 3GS to be especially comfortable. I get back pain on long trips in my 4Runner, but have not experienced the problem (so far) with my 3GS.
You may be able to correct your back pain with devices available from auto parts dealers and "relax the back" stores. There are lumbar support pillows that strap to the seat back (much more effective than the car's lumbar adjustment), and inflatable devices to provide side support.
I realize everyone is different, but I have found the seats on my 3GS to be especially comfortable. I get back pain on long trips in my 4Runner, but have not experienced the problem (so far) with my 3GS.
Last edited by ahearn; Dec 30, 2007 at 08:17 PM.
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 240
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From: Florida
I have tried adjusting the seat multiple times. I am a large man (politicaly correct for mildly obese) with a large upper body (still can lift the heavy weights at the gym) so the seat needs to be down most of the way or my head hits the ceiling. In addition, the seat needs to be inclined a bit. This limits my other adjustments because one can't drive easily with his head touching the headliner.
My back is "fair" so I really need a decent seat. I figured since my 4 Runner is no Lexus and I get comfortable in that seat the GS 350 would be at least as good. I figured wrong as the cushion and lumbar support is terrible for my back. As a side note my wife loves the car and thinks the seats are fine. She really likes the 20" wheels as well. But, this is supposed to be MY car.
My back is "fair" so I really need a decent seat. I figured since my 4 Runner is no Lexus and I get comfortable in that seat the GS 350 would be at least as good. I figured wrong as the cushion and lumbar support is terrible for my back. As a side note my wife loves the car and thinks the seats are fine. She really likes the 20" wheels as well. But, this is supposed to be MY car.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 240
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From: Florida
If the car is NOT titled then it can sold as new That is the law. A new GS 350 with 300 miles would sell quickly if it came with a nice $$ discount like $1,000. Thus, the dealer could allow me to exchange the vehicle for $1,000 provided I purchase another Lexus. I have only had the car for 48 hours.
I paid around $46,500 OTD for my 07 GS350 loaded with everything and for 1k off and 300 miles I don't think its worth it. Plus making payments don't hurt so much, but I will admit, that car note is no joke.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Florida
In my experience, the mistake on the contract is not a legal loophole that you can take advantage of -- it's just a mistake that the dealer has the right to correct. Also, the fact the contract was not signed by the dealer is not legal grounds to declare the deal void -- most contracts are not signed by dealers. You could check with a lawyer, but he'll probably say the same thing.
You may be able to correct your back pain with devices available from auto parts dealers and "relax the back" stores. There are lumbar support pillows that strap to the seat back (much more effective than the car's lumbar adjustment), and inflatable devices to provide side support.
I realize everyone is different, but I have found the seats on my 3GS to be especially comfortable. I get back pain on long trips in my 4Runner, but have not experienced the problem (so far) with my 3GS.
You may be able to correct your back pain with devices available from auto parts dealers and "relax the back" stores. There are lumbar support pillows that strap to the seat back (much more effective than the car's lumbar adjustment), and inflatable devices to provide side support.
I realize everyone is different, but I have found the seats on my 3GS to be especially comfortable. I get back pain on long trips in my 4Runner, but have not experienced the problem (so far) with my 3GS.
The contract states it MUST Be signed by an authorized dealer representative to be valid. It is not signed. Why have contracts if you don't need to sign them? Also, the figures are all wrong. I will present these facts to the manager tomorrow. So far, he has not even proposed a number but my guess is he will expect me to take a big hit.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 240
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From: Florida
I must agree. For what I'm paying already for the car 40K+, another 1k isn't going to kill me for a car with 30 if not less miles. Who knows what could have been done to the car within that 30-300 miles... a lot. What, only they person who put the miles on that car will know. Its like buying a rental car... yeah righttttt. Every rental I got, I beat the hell out of it and most people do.
I paid around $46,500 OTD for my 07 GS350 loaded with everything and for 1k off and 300 miles I don't think its worth it. Plus making payments don't hurt so much, but I will admit, that car note is no joke.
I paid around $46,500 OTD for my 07 GS350 loaded with everything and for 1k off and 300 miles I don't think its worth it. Plus making payments don't hurt so much, but I will admit, that car note is no joke.
Wow, you are sure skeptical. I have found one owner vehicles that have been meticulously maintained to be great buys especially when the cars have low miles. If I was in the market for an AMG E63 I would rather pay more from the original owner than a dealer who purchased the car at auction.
Your Lexus would also qualify as just such a vehicle.
Thread Starter
Pole Position
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 240
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From: Florida
The one positive thing is this forum lets me vent. That really helps. I also get to see the dealer's perspective better by reading your posts. Perhaps, I need to settle up with the dealer and move on.
If the dealer wants me to lose more than $3,000 I may keep the car and try those lumbar cushions (not optimistic). I found several online that may help.
The fact remains that I would pay whatever it takes to not have back pain after driving a car.
www.bodyline.com
If the dealer wants me to lose more than $3,000 I may keep the car and try those lumbar cushions (not optimistic). I found several online that may help.
The fact remains that I would pay whatever it takes to not have back pain after driving a car.
www.bodyline.com
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http://www.lnt.com/product/index.jsp...entPage=family
Above will make a huge difference.
Sorry but once that contract is signed, its a sold car. The dealer will not "take it back" even if you pay a grand.
By law, that car is titled and Lexus cannot re-sell it as new. I am sure they can think of creative ways of putting you in another car though.
Now since the contract is basically all screwed up, not sure what Lexus will do. By now I am sure they have notified the DMV for your tag, your insurance company knows and the financing paperwork is more than likely submitted.
Even if the dealer admits they screwed up with the contract, I don't think they can just take back the car and put it back on the lot as new. Well I "guess" they can, put they have to fix all those items I put in the paragraph above.
Lexus is probably already counting your car towards Dec sales figures which will be released on Wednesday.
Above will make a huge difference.
Sorry but once that contract is signed, its a sold car. The dealer will not "take it back" even if you pay a grand.
By law, that car is titled and Lexus cannot re-sell it as new. I am sure they can think of creative ways of putting you in another car though.
Now since the contract is basically all screwed up, not sure what Lexus will do. By now I am sure they have notified the DMV for your tag, your insurance company knows and the financing paperwork is more than likely submitted.
Even if the dealer admits they screwed up with the contract, I don't think they can just take back the car and put it back on the lot as new. Well I "guess" they can, put they have to fix all those items I put in the paragraph above.
Lexus is probably already counting your car towards Dec sales figures which will be released on Wednesday.