ok..so ive done some reading...and im officially confused...so i figure ill just ask you guys.. What would happen if i ran my 98 Gs3 on E85? besides MPG drop
Thanks

 

well you'd just have to check over your fuel lines to make sure theyre not natural rubber...other than that it would just really clean out your engine pretty good because e85 is a very powerful solvent. youd probably see some black smoke for the first part of driving while the carbons and stuff are still coming out.

 

Your going to find that the GS will drive funny as well as it has been shown to through CEL lights. When i worked at Lexus of Wayzata, we'd see it about two to three times a week. In the Midwest, we run about 15% alcohol to improve emissions and reduce freezing in the winter. However, the 2jz was not designed to run with alcohol. You will decrease your gas mileage, and performance if you choose to run E85, with is 85% ETHONAL alcohol. The alcohol does not have any cleaning attribtutes, it simply causes the car to run really rich to reduce emission temps. I would not suggest it, and DONT EVER PUT IN METHONAL!!!! You will replace every single part that comes in contact with the meth. Hope this clears up a little confusion

 

or you could convert it like the OP is talking about and have no problems at all. JeffTsai is running a GTE swap with a big single turbo running probably 600+ to the wheels, all on E85.

obviously if you put E85 in a non converted car it's gonna run like crap, you might as well put in gasoline diluted 7-1 with water.

the E85, due to the ethanol mixed with the gasoline is an excellent solvent. It doesn't cause the car to run rich, the ethanol just has a quicker burn rate so that you only use about 10% more fuel per mile. Seeing that the current savings for E85 are around a dollar per gallon, which is approximately 25%, therefore you still make out well by converting, if it's readily available.

you've actually, in fact, caused more confusion than you cleared up. Get your facts correct before throwing out bad information and swaying someone's opinion. don't believe me? watch the video on youtube of JeffTsai running a sub 12 second quarter mile, on E85.

or shoot him a pm, even quicker for him to drop some knowledge on you.

 

whoa... so now my only question is how do you convert, is it worth it in the long run, how long is the long run (i.e. how long before you started seeing returns on investment), and how much trouble is it worth??

 

In all honesty, there are only 2 reasons to run E85. Support American economy instead of paying the middle eastern countries, and the other reason why I use it...cheap cheap race fuel!

My car is not very fuel efficient to start with since I'm always in boost. The way I drive I get about 12-14mpg on 93octane pump. If I'm on E85 then i get around 7-8mpg. Keep in mind when I'm on E85 I can run 30psi vs 21psi on 93 pump(with methanol injection). I also gun it more when I'm on E85 otherwise whats the point of race fuel? Also, from what I can see it seems like the gas tank in the GS is made of stainless steel so it should be fine holding ethanol. The stock fuel line looks to be of high enough quality and does not degrade with ethanol use. I'll report back on that in a year or two lol.

But in all seriousness the first 2 factors I pointed out are true....therefore you DO NOT make it out saving money by running E85 as a replacement for gasoline. Unless your live in the areas that produce ethanol....only then will you save money by running E85. Most everywhere else in the country it will end up costing more to run ethanol.

Reasoning...using the ethanol prices in my area as an example. And factoring in a stock vehicle. Ethanol has less energy content for the same amount of liquid volume compared to gasoline. So the car has to burn roughly 30% more of it to produce the same power. Due to this, you will lose 30% gas mileage across the board to burn ethanol at optimal mixture.

E85 around my area is $3.10/gal. 93 octane is about $3.80/gal. Say for example the car on gasoline get 20mpg, if it runs ethanol it will get about 15mpg. Here are the costs:

E85
$0.207 per mile
4.839 miles per $

93 octane
$0.190 per mile
5.263 miles per $

Now, if you compare E85 cost to regular 87 octane at $3.50/gal. Then it's a even worse deal. But as you can see in my area it is NOT cheaper to run ethanol. In some states the ethanol price is around $2.50/gal and it's more sensible to run it in those areas since you actually save money compared to gasoline.

A few fun facts about E85:
- It is currently government subsidized by $.50/gal to offset the worse gas mileage. Hey everyone is chipping in for my race fuel...I might as well take advantage of it!
- It burns cooler than gasoline so it's beneficial to a high performance engine by keeping the heat down so you don't melt the engine.
- Since it needs more fuel and therefore more air to burn the mixture...you get more exhaust flow/velocity per engine stroke. Long story short, it spools up a turbo faster.
- To run E85 you need to upgrade your fuel injectors, fuel pump, and reprogram the ecu to run the different mixture.

So, those that are wanting run E85. I hope my reasons here convice or dissuade you depending on what purpose you are going to be running the fuel for.

 

very informative. great right up!

 

Jeff... thanks for the info,,, a few more questions though.. So i just looked it up and apparently there is a citgo like 2 miles from my house in annapolis that sells e85 for 3.25 (as of 9-19-08) $ can you put both gasoline (premium) and e85 in a car once it is converted as you mentioned like fuel injectors and pump. if i am running low on e-85 in my car (after it is converted) can i fill it up with premium?? And, can you mix the e-85 and premium gas both in the same tank??

What are the advantages and disadvantages if any to using premium in a car that has made the necessary conversions to run e85.??

 

I'm bumping this because Im very interested in converting my car to e85...

Can you run regular 93 octane without e85 once converted? Do I need to run standalone only with e85? Or will the FIC8 work ok?

 

you would probably need a standalone, to tell the injector to shoot in more fuel when you are on e85 because it uses more fuel. Mixing the two I would probably guess you have to mix the same amount each time after you have your fuel mapped out for the mixture That is just my logical two cents. Haha Correct me if I am wrong

 

yea...there's only 1 station in austin that sells e85 and if I cant get there I want to be sure I can pump some 93 octane. I've been talking with Jeff on my standalone so this will be in the works when he hooks it up as well.

 

For the EMS, it's kind of a one or the other way situation. Some standalones have a switch that lets you toggle between 2 maps. There is a regular pump fuel and race fuel/e85 map. The EMS does not have this feature so the way around this is to run a ethanol content sensor. Basically, it tells you how much percentage ethanol is in your tank. It then converts it into a linear voltage that you can program into the EMS. However this still does not solve the problem of higher timing map and boost control(turbo only with boost controller, supercharger is set on pulley size) if you're on lower octane 93 pump fuel. E85 on the other hand is around 106-108 octane or so.

Basically what I'm getting at here is that running the EMS, you only have 1 map loaded. Thus, if you have the race map loaded and have 93 octane. The ethanol sensor will tell the ems to compensate fuel. So the air fuel ratio will be correct but the timing and boost cut setting will still be too aggressive when you're runnin on pump 93 octane. Boost cut is the setting where the EMS cuts off all engine power if manifold pressure exceeds a certain amount. Say on pump fuel you have it set at 10psi, and on E85 you have it at 20psi. If you're still on the E85 map, and put in pump fuel...the EMS won't cut power if you exceed 10psi which can result in a dangerous situation.

The best bet is to keep the car on 1 kind of fuel. Mine runs 100% full time on E85 only. If I ever go on a long road trip, I just reflash the AEM to a 93 octane fuel map.

 

so is there advantages to a supercharger running e85? Or should I just stick with the 93 and my methanol injection?

 

If you want to run a smaller pulley/higher boost range across the powerband, then I would suggest e85 if you are running out of octane.

If you only hit high boost once in a while, methanol/water injection with 93 octane is still the way to go.

However, if you are constantly tapping into your methanol/water injection with your current setup, I would suggest looking into e85 as well.

Meth/water injection nowdays are pretty reliable, but I would still use it as a fail-safe device, not as a source of fuel.

 

I was reading my FIC/8 instructions tonight and low and behold, it has a user switch for 2 maps (one for race and one for pump gas). I just need to wire up a switch. I may try out e85 because my pulley should be about 11psi-12psi according to Morris. Its his old cogged pulley setup. I'm going to have Boost logic tune for e85 and try it out...