so what is your point again? how about someone swapping the m5 engine into the m5 and you kiss his *** goodbye? you are being ridiculous here anyway. like everyone has talked about, we are not talking about FI (ding ding) here, if you have FI and tuned well, you'd better off being able to kick the m3 ***, otherwise it's another good laugh.

and who's talking about over 120mph anyway? we are talking about 1/4 mile or so. if you talk about the m3, over 120 it starts to show its limit already coz' of its engine. you bring in the m5 or so and it will continue to entertain other cars after 120mph.

oh and 1000? yeah that's to remove the controller and to boost it all the way to 18 (man read, EIGHTEEN boost). why dont' we talk about the cost for the swap, as well as the parts? a new gs300 is about what, 45k? if you get a good gte swap on the car, that's 10k easy, so you are up to 55k already, you are not much far off from the m3.

yes, modding the m3 is limited, coz' the car is so well FINE tuned already to its max capactiy, so? that's the beauty of it, it shows the engineering achievement the germans have. do you see that on the lexus side? (don't get me wrong, i love toyota and lexus, but with all due respect they haven't done what the bimmer has)

you are picking a wrong war to fight bro, and what you said in your post completely stepped on your own toe. putting 18 boost turbo on the gte engine, if you can't get a football field away from him, it's a shame. how about going back to 11 boost and see how he keeps up with you (wait, and you are running FI already). both cars are great cars (gs4 and m3), to me they are not for the same league period. i never said the m3 isn't overpriced, but it has what it's worth. the gs4 has what it's worth too, at a lower price. but the answer to whether a modded gs4 can deal with a m3? maybe close, but the m3 will still edge (considering that you with 11 boost and still lose to it)

 

My nod goes to the M3.

 

Incorrect. The ///M has quite a few options for BMW specific companies. UUC, Dinan, etc..... Multiple supercharger options...... twin turbo ///M3's such as "Bi-turbo" 's car over on BFC have posted vids of the E30 ///M3's killing everything that comes against them. (supra's included).

The fact is the ///M3 was never meant to be a strait line car. Anything can go fast in a strait line. Big accomplishment? Na... '72 pinto's with 454 supercharged big block transplants carring no weight and all ***** can pull those sub 10's all day. ..........at the end of the day... it is still a pinto.

The ///M3 is the industry standard in performance that most car's shoot for, along with the big brother ///M5. If you happen to build something faster down a strait line........ you better hope the road has a tree and timing lights, because on the street all roads curve and you lose.

 

If you reread my post, you will realize that I was not using my experience to weigh in on the likely outcome of a 1/4 mile run between a lightly modded GS4 and a M3 at all. The point I was trying to make was that the M3 is not the almighty destroyer that you guys seem to think it is. Everyone in the thread was singing praise for the M3 and commenting about how great of a sport car the M3 is when in reality it's not. In fact, over at supra forums, killing an E46 M3 does not even count as a kill. And let's not forget that the motor I put in the my GS comes standard in the GS body in Japan. They call it the Aristo V300 or V300VE. You can bring the M5 to come get its *** whipping as well.

As far as 120 MPH, a lot of cars trap more than that in the quarter mile. I have not had a chance to take my GS to the track yet but I have a feeling that I should trap close to 120MPH in the 1/4. My supra traps at 138MPH and it's FAAARRRR from being even close to the fastest supras out there running in full street trim and trapping close to 170MPH in the 1/4 mile.

Don't believe I only think that Supras are fast. I have respect for many sports cars out there including many domestic cars. The M3 is just not one of them because of its limitations.

Granted at that point I am not that far from the price of the M3. What you need to look at however is where we each of us can go from there. Actually, $1000 includes the boost controller, the boost cut controller, the speed delimiter. For about a grand, I was able to get over 150rwhp. Let me see how much you can gain in the M3 for that amount of money. Less than 10rwhp would be a safe bet IMO.

You make me laugh when you talk about achievement. If anyone has achieved anything, it's Lexus/Toyota. They overbuilt the 2JZ GTE motor to the point where you can safely push 700rwhp on stock bottom end. I would love to see you try that with a bimmer...LOL...And just so that you know, you can SAFELY run 18 lbs EVERYDAY on the 2JZ GTE motor with STOCK turbos and internals. In fact, 18lbs is considered very conservative for a 2JZ GTE motor. Many guys are running 24, 25lbs on the stock turbos. In the supra, I run 36lbs using C16 and a single turbo with STOCK internals. Talk about achievement now!

You've got it all wrong. My post was not about GS4 edging the E46 M3. It was about the worth of the M3 as a sports car. Furthermore, just because the factory sets the boost at 11 lbs does not mean it's the best setting for the car. They wanted to be safe as not everyone has access to high octane gasoline. Take Jtanoyo for example, all he can get in his country is 87 Octane, therefore, he won't push the boost too high. Here in South Florida, I have access to 93 Octane. My boost is set all time to 16lbs and I can scramble boost quickly with the EVC to 18 lbs safely when I need to. The only reason I have it set to 16lbs is because I am too chicken. However, a lot of guys run 18lbs daily on pump gas without affecting their engines or the life of their turbos. Way to go Toyota.

 

The cheapest package offered by Dinan cost $5,000 plus labor and gets you a whopping 23 HP over stock...LOL. Their $10,000 package gets you an amazing 29HP...WOW. My point was that for real power to be gained by the E46 M3, you need to spend a small fortune for relatively small gains. As far as superchargers and turbochargers for the E46 M3, here is a link to the M3 forums regarding that subject. It's very short but extremely informative. http://www.m3forum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000687.html As I said before, choices are limited and prices ridiculous ($35,000 for a turbo charger kit with less than 150 rwhp gain, $20,000 for a supercharger kit with about 100HP gain + about $10,000 for labor in each case).

As far as the E30 killing some supras, I am not saying it's impossible but what were the specs of the supras it was running against and what are its specs? Also, I thought we were talking about the E46 M3. Regardless, at comparable levels of modifications, on the track on in straight line, supras will destroy M3s. I would still like to see the video you are talking about and check out that site though...

I wish I had a $1 everytime I heard that lame excuse from people with slow cars...LOL It would be crazy to compare the handling of the M3 to that of the GS. The M3 would win everytime...I think... However, there are a lot of sports cars that handle much better than the M3. And for those of you with the misconception that the supra is only fast in straight lines, you are dead wrong. The car came STOCK doing 1g on the skidpad. I take my supra around curves at over 160MPH with no fear of rolling over at all. In fact, with a few suspension upgrades on the Supra you will be running circles against any M3, anytime on any track. How is that for a sports car? I doubt you have EVER driven a supra and just so that you know, I was one of the first people in South Florida to buy the E46 M3 when it came out. The motor blew up while trying to race a vette. I went to hell and back trying to get BMW to honor their warranty and replace the motor. When they finally did, I sold that piece of crap. Ah, the vette...there goes another sport car, of course you also have the Viper, the Porsche 911 turbo, etc..... Please don't mention the M3 as a sport car among sports cars guys. You will get laughed at.

 

must be nice when the post is read wrong is so many aspect isn't is

1) the thread is about gs4 (modded but no FI) vs m3, period, nada, zip. nothing more nothing less. and the answer is there, no argue, done deal. that's the purpose of this thread
2) supra forum? yeah sure, let's put a stock supra tt together with the m3 stock and see who wins, then we will talk. don't throw in more boost and stuff again, the supra tt engine is tuned to stand the FI, everything is designed with a different mindset. the m3 is designed to be a NA engine.
3) of course i don't forget about the v300, i have owned my gs long enough to know that. and so? it's a FI car. are we talking about FI?
4) well, 1/4 mile? gosh, where's our gs3 turbo that runs 8 or 9 sec at the drag strip all day long? so what's your point? i don't see it going with this thread
5) we are not talking about best bang for the bucks here man. i think to do a comparison you have to throw in all parameters well. we talking about slightly modded gs4 here with m3 (again). if you talk about best bang for the bucks, man, i am with you all day. when was the last time you find something for the bimmer that's cheaper than the same thing designed for toyota/lexus?
6) when/where did i say that running 18 boost on the gte engine is unsafe? i know it's a very "normal" and "safe" setup for the tt engine, and i know how strong that engine is.
7) if you talk about a engine that can handle the most power, i wont' disagree that the m3 engine is just ok. but again, you comparing a NA engine to a FI engine? what's the point. who knows if bimmer goes out and design a FI engine, maybe they can hold just as much power. on the other hand, i don't see toyota having a stock NA engine putting out that much power as the m3. putting 333 hp on NA i6, 396 hp on NA v8, and 504 hp on NA v10, imho that's achivements.

again i don't think i understood you wrong, but what i am saying is that you were trying to twist this post/poll to another level that's totally out of the scope of this thread. if you make a thread about how the m3 sux in terms of power improvement (aftermarket) vs some other cars, you will see me nodding all the way, since yes, for the e46 there is almost no way to increase the power further.

and i still want to stress the point about stock NA engine from factory. if you talk about that, then i think bmw did a pretty darn good job in squeezing every last big of power from the i6 engine. that's a lot of work.

yes, some people call that stupid and waste of time, but to me (this is subjective probably) it's a piece of art. it's so hard to really understand a NA engine so well to push out all the power. on the other hand, it's relatively easier to FI a car. BUT, you are right, toyota did a good job in making the gte engine (supra is one of the legendary cars no one can argue), which can allow high boost and high power. however that's FI we talking about, to me those are two different categories and it's just way too hard to compare them. it's almost true to say that FI can always produce more power than NA. that's why i keep on saying there is no point comparing these two aspects.

and i think thats the philosophy behind bmw, they don't want to go FI. that's probably when the next m3 will be v8 (or at least a lot of rumors), and the new m5 is already v10. just like mb with their supercharged v8, i think bimmer can just do a v8 engine with FI and push out as much power, but that's not the route they are taking.

just to conclude, i don't want you to get the wrong impression that i think you are wrong. no you are not. i can see what you are trying to say, but that's out of the scope of this thread, and i think there are plenty of credits where the m3 is due and deserved. you are making valid points about your comparison that bimmer is expensive (who wouldn't say so) and it's really "not that fast", but to me the bottom line is, what are we indeed comparing.

 

When you make a valid point, i will address it.

 

You are right. The thread is about a lighly modded GS4 against a BMW M3. Again, I was not trying to compare my modded GS to the M3. I was just pointing out that as far as sports cars, the M3 was not the win all conquer all it was praised to be.


That would be an unfair comparison. The M3 is tuned from factory to give all it can gives while the supra was DETUNED from factory to honor their gentleman agreement in Japan where all cars are supposed to produce only 280HP. Now, who do you know leave their twin turbo supra bone stock? Again, not a fair comparison.
I was just pointing out that from factory, we have a car that can easily outperform the M3. That was to answer to your comment about the engine swap. Again, I was not trying to compare a forced induction GS to a M3. I was merely pointing out that the M3 was not such a great performer after all.. As far as 1/4 mile, I am yet to see a BMW run those numbers either. However, I have seen full street trim Aristos run 10's...now show me even one M3 that can do the same...LOL

Even that I don't consider to be achievement. There are guys getting a lot more power out of their naturally aspirated 4 bangers. FYI, the fastest all motor civic runs 10.68 @129MPH. That's achievement and they don't even have the millions of dollars from a factory to back them up.

The problem is that BMW tries to extract every hp from factory. I too was lured into buying a M3 thinking that if I could start with 333 naturally aspirated HP, it would be a breeze to slap a turbo kit on the motor and make it a lot faster. Boy was I wrong! I destroyed that motor in less than a year and yes, the break in period had already passed. BMW was trying to weasel its way out of changing my motor and said I was pushing the car too hard when the motor blew. I was not using Nitrous or Forced Induction. How was I pushing it too hard??? And this is supposed to be a sport car? My lawyer spent months fighting them before they agreed to change the motor. And if you thing I am the only person who blew the motor on a M3, think again. Just do a search on m3forum.com for "blown motor" and see how many threads you get. I guess I feel that way about the M3 because of personal bad experience. Sorry for hijacking the thread but it made my blood boil when I saw the M3 being touted as the ultimate sport car. I for one know that I would have loved to know those facts about the M3 before I dumped my money into it...

 

Dude, you are hilarious Much love. Peace

 

You are forgetting that the factory guys have make the cars legal. The S2000 and M3 are the highest output per liter from the factory without FI for a standard production car. Morever, if you made the M3 an "all motor" car (god I hate that phrase) it would be pretty quick. Lastly, the S54 when modified in a similar fashion to those "all motor" civics has well over 400 hp (PTG M3's as an example). That would be the closest comparison to those drag race civics. Oh, and those engines last 24 Hours at Le Mans. You are right though, not impressive.

BMW believes in balanced cars. In other words, they won't build a torque monster type car as they believe it unbalances the chassis. I recall a quote from one of their engineers stating that they will always make the chassis quicker than the engine (or words to that effect). Just different philosophies. In fact, Toyota's engine development is much more along the lines of BMW's high-revving engines than, for example, AMG.

 

GS430 w/mods should be about the same as the E36 bimmers,,but the new E46 are out of our league.

 

[QUOTE=HKS_GS430]GS430 w/mods should be about the same as the E36 bimmers,,but the new E46 are out of our league. A mod gs430 can break in to 13's. thats good enough to get a E36. too bad everyone around boston got E46 now, but a lil NOS will even the game

 

[QUOTE=HKS_GS430]Having raced both in the old GS, yes a modded GS 4 can keep up and stay with a E36M. You MUSt add supsension pieces, PERIOD for this to happen as well as making your car faster with bolt ons.

The E46, no way. That car is clearly 1 step ahead. Remember, we got the US 240hp M3, not the 315hp Euro version. We did get the Euro/Worldwide, E46M3.

 

I was driving state rd 87 in Arizona in my '03 GS430, completely L-tuned and with STB and 3.76 LSD.
A friend of mine was driving his '04 M3. We were each doing a buck twenty and I had a great view of his tail.

I've driven his car before. Unbelievable torque and extremely stable on curves. You would think that it had a giant magnet keeping it down.

Now, put a blower in the 430 and it would be a different ballgame.

 

hahha, i found this comment very funny i sure did see the led taillights couple of times

oh just OT, and i lost to an sl55 the other day too, hehe