AMIRZA786

It sounds to me like a BEV would be better, you're not carrying around the extra weight of an engine that's never used. Just my opinion

Margate330

Hmmm That's a good point.

ICE or BEV and skip the PHEV. ?

It doesn't sound like PHEV has any upsides where I live but maybe it does in other places.

AMIRZA786

A PHEV makes perfect sense if you live in an area with limited charging and you drive long distances. If you just commute 20 or 30 miles a day, charge at home, PHEV makes no sense to me, as again you are carrying around a heavy engine that's never used. Something like a Nissan Leaf makes way more sense, it has more power and torque than a PHEV in EV mode, is cheap and needs no maint. Again, just my opinion

703

That’s when authors lose credibility by imparting their own left wing opinions. The fact is

EV produced in China (including Tesla plant) creates 12.3 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions (6 tonnes for the vehicle and 6.3 for the battery). A petrol car’s manufacture involves an average 6.7 tonnes of CO2 emissions. figures from a European Federation for Transport and Environment study.

Should governments wake up and remove all incentives for EV too? Should EV owners have a class actions too?

I look forward to the day where news articles are generated by AI based on facts without author/amateur journalism opinion farts.

AMIRZA786

I think I've said this many times, I don't buy EV's to save the environment. I also didn't post this article to "ding" Toyota, it was purely to counter a false narrative put out. I can care less how many tonnes of emissions EV's or PHEV's produce. OK, I care a little. My reasons for moving to EV's are purely performance related. If I didn't make a move to EV's, I would probably have an M3 or M5 sitting in my driveway.

I don't talk politics here, but they are probably closer to yours than you may realise

AMIRZA786

Yes, I'm not for incentives, for EV's or PHEV's. The only incentives I believe government should be giving is for home/business solar installations. I personally didn't get any incentives from the government buying my EV's. Hyundai did give me $7500 lease cash towards our Ioniq 5 lease, but that was voluntary on their part, as they didn't have to. Also they only offer it on SE and SEL and not the Limited. Regardless of incentives, my next cars will be EV's

LeX2K

Unless you buy nothing made in China (impossible) you can't complain about industrial pollution there.

Bob04

No, it's not really a good point.

PHEV batteries are typically about 1/6th the size of BEV batteries. Batteries are heavy and expensive. Model Y battery is 1800 lbs. So, instead of dragging around a motor, you are dragging around about 1500 lbs of batteries you aren't using.

PHEV would allow you to drive around as an EV most of the time and never have to worry about range anxiety or finding a charger. Best of both worlds.

asj2024

1. Considering that 50% or likely more of the miles I've driven is in HV mode, I would say that's incorrect. I do short drives most days but go far on some days.

In future, that proportion will likely move more to HV as we do long transcontinental trips at least once a year, and a lot of interstate vacations.

2. If you're driving less than say 30 miles a day most days, you're dragging along a very heavy battery that is barely used that day.

I have a small battery that is just right for the short drives I do most days. I just recharge it at home at night.

LeX2K

Would be true if you completely ignore the energy and materials that go into making the engine, fuel system, emissions controls and exhaust. Plus the "dragging around" comment is not valid for an EV because they get 120 MPGe.

Bob04

Plus, when a PHEV battery goes bad, it will be far less expensive to replace, where as a dead BEV battery pretty much makes it a throw away unless you are willing to go to an aftermarket battery repair shop, pay a lot of money, and hope for success.

Bob04

I'm not ignoring it. But batteries fairies don't deliver batteries to automakers either.

And if you only need 40 miles of EV range a day, you are dragging around a lot of extra batteries that you don't need. At that point, the only difference is how you choose to go beyond 40 miles and long range trips. In that scenario, falling back to the ICE engine is definitely more convenient.

AMIRZA786

I drive a 476 HP car everyday to work that costs under $50k, can go 0 to 80 in less than 5 seconds, costs me less than $4 a week in electricity, needs no maint and is fully charged every morning makes more sense than driving a $50k PHEV that has at most a 178 hp Electric motor in "EV" mode?? Maybe in your world, not mine 🤣🤣

AMIRZA786

Look, I have absolutely nothing against PHEV's, but if I want to sleep, I would rather take Ambien, thank you 😂

LeX2K

I own 6 gas cars pretty sure I have a good sense of what is a more convenient vehicle is to own. But that's just me I don't consonantly try and berate people for their choice of owning a gas car.

Back on topic Toyota is getting flack because they are lying about real world usage of plug-in hybrids as explained in the article.