Hi all,

I am considering the ES as a large car for up to 3 small kids. I drove a standard 350 and thought the car handled well for its size and better than Avalon. Comfortable well laid out high quality interior similar to a Volvo.

I am used to sports car handling (had a porsche boxster and then 911)...Can’t stand SUV handling so that’s why I’m looking at large sedans. There’s plenty of reviews claiming the Lexus ES doesn’t have drive like a sports sedan, but after comparing different cars offered, I disagree. The FWD spins and wont let you toss the car around for fun, but otherwise driving normally the handling is great. The NA engine isn’t as quick as a turbo 4, but it’s far more smooth and refined...just enough power to enjoy revving out in normal driving (believe it or not, something that I want after driving a 3.2 sec 0-60 car around).

Anyone know the differences between:
- Normal ES 350 suspension
​​​​​​- F sport suspension
- F sport suspension with adaptive suspension

There’s an f sport without adaptive coming to dealer in a few weeks I will try. It doesn’t have the adaptive option and I’m trying to figure out does that mean its more or less sporty.

 

I have a 19 FSport without AVS. I specifically opted out of AVS knowing that repairs later on might be much more costly. I never even tested one with AVS.

 

I wonder what handling differences you noticed between Avalon? The Avalon has pretty much identical body in white and chassis to the Avalon, and to an extremely large extent, the Camry. This includes subframes, major suspension components, etc. The only difference is how the dampers are tuned. The springs, roll bars, etc are the same.

 

Avalon didn’t feel tight. Despite same platform, I don’t think the cars share same design and parts. ES is noticeably better built and drives smoother/sharper. Avalon had considerable body roll and steer was vague.

I do want to try an Avalon TRD version, but there’s none around.

ES is only 2-5k more expensive and is better as far as I can tell. Avalon does have slightly more interior space and utility (seats fold etc).

 

Just get a 2021 Accord Touring 2.0 T and call it a day

 

Are you sure that the handling differences that you perceive aren't just the result of a confirmation bias?

 

Yes I’m sure. There is some media thing going around that they are the same cars, but anyone who ignores that and just tries the cars back to back will see they drive and feel very different. The Avalon rear seat area is somewhat bigger. The lexus drives and feels more solid. Best guess is Toyota intentionally detunes the Avalon, or its the cost cutting that transforms the cars. Don’t believe me? Don’t read forums to make up your mind...go try both cars yourself. If you’re shy, you don’t even need to drive them and can instead compare vision differences.

FYI, camry is also same platform as ES. And the lexus compact SUVs...

Also I have a solid 2011 toyota work tundra truck and never owned a lexus. I’d like the idea of spending less money on an Avalon made in the same factory as the Lexus ES. I’m even still trying to find a TRD version to prove it’s better than an ES.

...anyone else have opinions about my original post instead of going off this unrelated topic? If it matters, I think the Avalon TRD comes stock with the same adaptive suspension.

 

If Lexus/Toyota didn't manufacture with planned differences, who would opt for the Lexus - just to pay more $?? I've driven modern Camrys as rentals. Laughable to compare to an ES.

 

I know for a fact they (Avalon) share the same design and parts in terms of chassis, body in white, and suspension, but for damper tuning like I mentioned. Very very few and minute differences, mostly down to detail or packaging parts like fasteners.

It makes more sense for a car company like Toyota to build a really good platform and develop a lower model from it rather than two completely different designs just to justify a higher model. Avalon benefits more from this.

What differentiates the two is interior/exterior design, sound deadening, interior quality.

 

Your trying to compare a Sports Sedan to the ES350 but its NOT a Sports Sedan and was never meant to be one. You definitely can't compare it to a Porsche. If you are looking for a family car the Lexus 350 is a good fit. A better fit for you might be one of the German cars. I would never own one because of reliability issues (Compared to Lexus) and the high costs of ownership with maintenance and service. Good luck!

 

I've never understood why people compare it to the Camry anyway since they should be comparing it to the Avalon. Camry<Avalon<ES350.

 

Or to a Porsche - now that is funny

 

Update:

Per talking to the dealer, the adaptive suspension is tighter or more comfortable than standard depending on setting (sport plus mode). It's highly recommended on an fsport if you want the best handling/sporty suspension.

Either way, I'm going to give the standard fsport a try when it comes in in around 2 weeks...it might be adequate. Next month they have an adaptive suspension fsport coming and I'll try that too. I'm also looking at other brands/cars meanwhile.

I have extensive experience with Porsche cars. To be honest, there's a lot of marketing and 'dream hype.' It's a bit off topic, but I will say that there are diminishing returns and the benefits only show if you're trying to set track times. "Good handling" in normal driving is something a bit different and depends entirely on how it's driven. In this case, I'm talking about driving at speed limits with family in the car and not giving kids giggles (or screams) as you're letting the rear hang out going through a corner. My first 'base' boxster had more body roll and was slower to 60 than a camry (till i modified it) and driving a modern highly optioned 911 on public roads is like trying to use jack hammer to neatly set finish nails into shoe molding.

 

BUT you are talking about cars that are NOT family cars. It appears you are having a hard time decided what you really want. Let me clarify, a Porsche 911 or Boxster is NOT a family car!. If you want a family car look for an SUV or a 4 door sedan. Maybe you should give people an idea of what else you are looking and your maximum budget and maybe they can make some suggestions.

 

I have an f sport with AVS, when it’s set it’s very stiff and when it’s not in sport plus it drives well. I was put in a non f sport ES and that ride felt really floaty, much like people describe a Lexus ride. I liked the f ride better.