Many of us have noticed of late that Toyota seems to have been making some odd marketing decisions when it comes to maintaining a sufficient product difference between Toyota and the more premium Lexus brand. The LS and LC are dead, Toyotas have become more premium looking (especially the interiors) and the overall styling direction is too shared. Yes, IMO at least, Lexus still makes cars with more premium materials, better NVH protection, etc., but it is becoming more difficult in some cases for some to justify the price difference to move to Lexus when a comparable Toyota is almost as good. The upcoming gen 8 ES is a good example. Without a name plate, with that butt ugly side “thing” and even cabin choices like no more real luxury appearance and use of Camry style fuzzy fabric, you would be hard pressed to know it is a Lexus if you didn’t read the badging.

Well now it seems like the suspicions about Toyota wanting to make the Century their real top brand are coming true. Yes, only in Japan to start, but it is easy to see what has been going on. Lower the Lexus image and make the Century name and prestige soar in preparation of moving it beyond Japan’s borders. It will take years, but that seems to be the intended direction.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a7...-tokyo-teaser/

 

This article that I posted some days ago pretty much agrees with your opinion. https://carbuzz.com/fully-loaded-top...es-comparison/

Up to gen 7 there was a more distinct difference but it has been blurred somewhat starting with gen 8 cars. One has to wonder where things will will wind up. I haven't looked at Camry's but the one in this article looks pretty good with lots of features included with a Lexus and at a lower price. I'm keeping my '19 with a V6 as long as I can.

 

What evidence do you have to support ?

Camry vs ES
Rav4 vs NX
Highlander vs RX
4Runner vs GX
Sequoia vs LX

I think each time there is a comfort gap and depending on what you can spend it can make the opposite of what you are saying: price difference is irrelevant, just get the Lexus.

 

Honestly I think this goes for any of the brands that have a base and "luxury" offshoot.

Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, Toyota/Lexus, even VW and their brands, to an extent.

You are paying for a name, maybe a few more features, and hopefully at least slightly better quality and service.

I used to have a 2000 Accord Coupe...when I talked to an Acura dealer about a CL (basically the same car) I asked what I was getting if I spent 5K more for the Acura. "The name, and a trunk lid cover" was their response.

What did I pay an extra 5K for in 2015 for our ES over an Avalon? The name and better quality and service

What did I pay an extra 5K for in 2025 for our ES over a...Crown or Camry? The name and (hopefully) better quality and service.

Will it play out? It did for our 2015 and we were happy enough with our 2015 that I took a chance on the 2025.

 

I have both a 2025 ES 350 premium and a 2025 Toyota Crown Signia and have to say the Toyota build quality is at least on par or better than the ES. The Toyota has leather and the 3.0 safety system, while the Lexus has the older 2.5 safety system. The Toyota also has a 2 year maintenance plan, while the Lexus is only 1 year, which baffles me.

 

I own an ES and have test driven the CS. The Lexus definitely drives nicer and has nicer interior materials, a better sound system, and less engine noise.

The CS actually has less wind and road noise, more space of course, and the aforementioned updated safety system and additional year of service. Oh, and the CS had no interior squeaks/creaks/clicks/rattles whereas every single Lexus I've driven had some, sometimes a lot.

It's definitely an odd plan to have your luxury brand more outdated than your mainstream brand.

 

It's just that design is staggered.
At one point a Lexus is older than it's equivalent Toyota, then later we will have a newer Lexus so the Toyota will fill older, then a new Toyota, etc.

For the 1 year longer maintenance plan: that's like $100-300 worth, who cares.

 

You left out Grand Highlander vs. TX, where Car Care Nut for one drove both and concluded he couldn't justify the price difference based on very little distinction other than reduced noise.

 

Whose lineup is expanding, and whose lineup has shrunk to only sell cuvs and suvs?

Whose lineup gets the most advanced tech suite, like adas, or the latest hybrid setups, powertrains, and software defined automobile suites?

Which lineup gets its own performance sub brand?

Whose performance sub brand no longer exists?

The answer you seek lay in the answers to my questions.

 

Unfortunately I am hearing the is more and more

 

lexus hit two peaks IMO: late 90s two-tone era and 2014-2016 ish. walk into a dealer and point at any car: take my money.

 

While we were waiting to pick up our new 2015 ES, salesman had to move a 2016 RC out of the showroom...

White exterior, Red interior, V8 engine. Man that thing look and sounded goooooood. Seems that it was more looks and sound than performance, but still cool. It was also $73K...

 

That was the RC-F you saw, a major step up from the RC 350. V8 with 460+hp - yikes!

 

I wouldve liked a hybrid version of the RC. 140hp, high 30 mpgs.

 

If this was when the rcf launched yup that was peak adm season. If this was 2016 spring, ooofff those things were lot anchors and could be had for close to 50s, and were insane value for money.