95bat

Not much experience honestly, compared to others. I've only traded in 3 years over the last 10 years. I've never been under about 10% on KBB trade-in value, but I've traded fairly new cars so maybe that has something to do with it? I think the oldest car I traded was 3 years old. I have a bad habit of eating depreciation and trading cars in. I should probably start leasing. I think if a dealership was 20% under KBB I'd find another dealership, though.

Mike728

^^ Agreed. I've never accepted any offer that was below KBB's already low trade-in estimates. I usually get about 5% above. I also keep my vehicles in pristine condition, so maybe that has something to do with it.

lesz

I agree with the above. I've been getting a bit above the KBB (and Edmunds) valuations for cars in excellent condition.

And the above is important, too. If you tell them ahead of time that you have a trade-in, you are giving them the opportunity either to give you a low trade offer to offset what looks like a good discount on the new car or to give you a low discount on the new car to offset an artificially inflated trade offer.

mikemu30

of course but once youve hammered down the purchase price, what else is there to do - then you get the lowball trade regardless. You will NEVER beat them on both sides of the deal. I had a deal ready to go yesterday for a 2019 Fsport 10% off msrp. Then I threw in the trade and the lowball offer made me walk away. Ill sell privately.

mikemu30

Yeah I think you do better on a newer car. Also the brand makes a difference I suppose. My current car is five years old, perfect condition but its a Hyundai and they just dont hold value well. Oh well.

lesz

It is possible to get both an excellent discount on the new car and not get squeezed on the trade-in. Doing so becomes easier when you can keep the negotiations for the new car and those for the trade-in completely separate.

And what can make doing so much easier is if you do all of the negotiations via the internet sales departments of the dealers. If you do so simultaneously with as many dealers as possible and when those dealers know that they are competing for your business, they will more readily give their best offers both on the new car purchase and on the trade-in. When you are working via the internet and the phone with multiple dealerships at the same time, you have more control over the process. As soon as you step into the dealership and start negotiating there, you are turning much of the control of the process over to the dealership.

mikemu30

That is an interesting point which i havent given thought to. So you just have to be willing to put up with the annoying phone calls I suppose. But once they contact you, doesnt it just lead to "come in so we can see your trade".

lesz

Clearly, the goal of the salesperson is to get you into the dealership because, again, that puts them in more control over the process. And there are some dealers who won't be interested in making their best offers via the internet and phone, but many will. With a little back and forth, you can very quickly figure out which dealers are interested in working with you and, also, where the floor of the market is.

With my last couple of vehicle purchases, every detail of the deal was locked in before I set foot in the dealership, and that included the price of the new car, the trade-in, the doc fee, taxes, license and processing fees, etc. Before leaving my house to go to the dealership, I knew to the penny what the amount of the check that I would be writing would be.

In the last few years, I've posted an explanation of the buying process that I've used. I know that a good number of CL have used this procedure and swear by it. Below, I am pasting what I have posted here on CL in other threads.

"I would start by selecting all of the Lexus dealerships within, say, 200 miles of your location. Even if you would be reluctant to travel that far to buy the vehicle, starting with a larger number of dealerships allows you to begin with more negotiating leverage. Then, send identical emails to the internet sales departments of all of those dealers.

In the email, make several things clear. First, tell them, in as much detail as you can, what vehicle you are looking for, what packages you want, and what major options you are interested in. Then, let them know that you are sending the same email to all of those dealers, that you are prepared to buy immediately, and that you will buy from the dealer that makes the best offer.

You will likely get proposals from most, but possibly not all, of those dealerships. Take the best offer, send that to the other dealers that responded to your initial email, and ask them if they are interested in trying to beat that offer. Then, take the best of those second round offers and repeat the process. After repeating the same process a couple of times, within a couple of days you should have a very good idea about where the floor of the market is.

When you get down to 2 or 3 dealers, that is when you need to start looking at the offer proposals that they sent you very carefully to make sure that doc fees are reasonable, that processing fees for the title and license are reasonable, and that there are no hidden fees, dealer add-ons or options, etc.

If you have a trade-in, you should even be able to get a firm offer for that trade-in. First, use the websites of Edmunds and KBB to determine a fair value for your trade-in. Then, send pictures of your car to the dealership. If that dealership is really interested in getting your business, they will make a fair and firm offer on the trade-in. It is important, though, that you do not bring the trade-in into the discussion until after you have locked in an offer on the new vehicle.

An important part of the process is to get a price locked in for the new vehicle (and trade-in) via email and phone discussions before you set foot in the dealership. Until you have set foot in the dealership, you are the one who is in control of the situation. Once you are at the dealership and have started to negotiate a price at the dealership, you have given up a good portion of that control to the dealership.

I've found that dealerships are quite competitive with regard to internet sales. I've bought my last 2 vehicles using the method described above. I've found that that method is less stressful, and it has yielded prices that I could not have gotten by physically visiting multiple dealerships and negotiating pricing at the dealerships. I'll never buy another car any other way."

Mike728

^^ Les is well versed in the process and has taught me, and many others on the forum, how to best take on a new vehicle purchase in this day and age. It takes patience and a strong will to stay on track, though. Try to keep your emotions out of it. It also helps to live, or be willing to travel to, an area that has several competing dealers.

I'm currently in the process of replacing my wife's car and utilizing the above procedure, as much as possible. It's eye opening seeing the diversity of reply's you get from dealers. I live in the western suburbs of Chicago, so my options are plentiful. If I lived in say Boise, ID I may have to cross state lines to get a deal. In that case I would have to weigh the benefits.

This is probably the best forum I've been a member of for useful information, like this. If you want to lease, there's a whole thread on that in the Car Chat forum. I never understood the reasons for leasing, besides just driving something you normally couldn't afford. I still have no desire to lease, but I can now understand why some do.

The thread topic is about the "December to Remember" deals on the 2019 ES. My area shows $500 owner loyalty...Pretty lame. But, if you use the info gained here, you will be much better off. The new ES is not in limited supply. Don't let them fool you.

lesz

My situation is quite different. For me, the closest Lexus dealers are about 100 miles from me, and they are in 3 different directions.

When I bought the ES that I currently own, I started by contacting the internet sales people, not only from those 3 closest dealers, but I also expanded my initial contact list to dealers somewhat further away. Even though I really didn't want to have to travel that far ultimately to buy the car, including dealers further from me in the list of dealers that I contacted, in effect, increased my chances of not having to travel that far to complete an excellent deal because it was the attractive offers from those dealers that were further away that provided motivation to the more nearby dealers to make competitive offers. The larger the number of dealers that you start with, the better will be the chances of getting good offers, including those from dealers that are close to you. And the nice thing is that sending an email to a dealer that is a good distance from you takes no more effort than sending an email to a dealer that is a 10 minute drive from you.

mikemu30

Anyone hear any rumblings as to whether or not the incentives will get sweeter after December 2nd? I walked away from the latest offer the dealer gave me on a new FSport. In no rush.