All-new 2019 Lexus ES to debut at Beijing Motorshow
04-11-18, 10:16 AM
#17
I’m not really agreeing with what the poster says, I’m certainly not a fan at all of FWD vehicles or FWD bias AWD vehicles, but there are a couple benefits to owning FWD. mind you I personally don’t find these attributes benefits in my personal car collection nor do I own a FWD vehicle. Although I wouldn’t mind picking up a new Volvo V90 Cross Country for the family.
1. Better in snowy inclement weather conditions (when using traditional all season tires.) compared to RWD car with same tire.
2. Packaging is much better with FWD type vehicles compared to RWD.
Can’t think of any other reasons why someone would want to buy a FWD vehicle. But for some people these are big deals believe it or not.
1. Better in snowy inclement weather conditions (when using traditional all season tires.) compared to RWD car with same tire.
2. Packaging is much better with FWD type vehicles compared to RWD.
Can’t think of any other reasons why someone would want to buy a FWD vehicle. But for some people these are big deals believe it or not.
04-11-18, 10:17 AM
#18
Lexus Test Driver
There are packaging benefits with FWD I agree.
RWD with snow tires will have better traction then FWD and much easier and more predictable to control if there is an emergency maneuver necessary. Modern traction control systems work very well on RWD cars. I live in NY and have driven RWD cars since 2001 without any issue all year round.
One of the magazines did review between FWD vs RWD vs AWD in the snow on same tires and FWD had the worst results in driveability.
04-11-18, 10:27 AM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
FWD has nothing to do with fuel economy.
There are packaging benefits with FWD I agree.
RWD with snow tires will have better traction then FWD and much easier and more predictable to control if there is an emergency maneuver necessary. Modern traction control systems work very well on RWD cars. I live in NY and have driven RWD cars since 2001 without any issue all year round.
One of the magazines did review between FWD vs RWD vs AWD in the snow on same tires and FWD had the worst results in driveability.
There are packaging benefits with FWD I agree.
RWD with snow tires will have better traction then FWD and much easier and more predictable to control if there is an emergency maneuver necessary. Modern traction control systems work very well on RWD cars. I live in NY and have driven RWD cars since 2001 without any issue all year round.
One of the magazines did review between FWD vs RWD vs AWD in the snow on same tires and FWD had the worst results in driveability.
Well - one can say FWD with snow tires will have better traction than RWD with snow tires. Actually - I disagree. FWD is much more predictable than RWD.
Look I'm not a fan of FWD too but cars with FWD make good DD cars. You can't deny this fact. And majority of the consumer base doesn't really care for FWD vs RWD vs AWD. This is just enthusiasts talk.
04-11-18, 10:28 AM
#20
FWD has nothing to do with fuel economy.
There are packaging benefits with FWD I agree.
RWD with snow tires will have better traction then FWD and much easier and more predictable to control if there is an emergency maneuver necessary. Modern traction control systems work very well on RWD cars. I live in NY and have driven RWD cars since 2001 without any issue all year round.
One of the magazines did review between FWD vs RWD vs AWD in the snow on same tires and FWD had the worst results in driveability.
04-11-18, 11:22 AM
#22
Pole Position
I knew you would bring this argument and that’s why I specified traditional all season tires equipped on both vehicles will put the FWD vehicle in lead of the RWD vehicle. With dedicated snow tires absolutely your RWD car will out perform a FWD car or even a AWD car with regular all season tires.
Back on topic. The current gen was first leaked and introduced at the Beijin auto show as well. That said, I like the look more than the current gen and I wouldnt mind if they bring the design over from the Chinese market. They demand and love luxury items so I would imagine the interior quality can be amazing to woo rich buyers. Imagine if Toyota had brought over the Camry from the Chinese market where it is considered a luxury car, nobody will complain about having cheap interiors in the previous gens.
04-11-18, 11:45 AM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
Let's not derail this thread with FWD vs RWD vs AWD vs 4WD. People will want what they want. It is what it is.
Back on topic. The current gen was first leaked and introduced at the Beijin auto show as well. That said, I like the look more than the current gen and I wouldnt mind if they bring the design over from the Chinese market. They demand and love luxury items so I would imagine the interior quality can be amazing to woo rich buyers. Imagine if Toyota had brought over the Camry from the Chinese market where it is considered a luxury car, nobody will complain about having cheap interiors in the previous gens.
Back on topic. The current gen was first leaked and introduced at the Beijin auto show as well. That said, I like the look more than the current gen and I wouldnt mind if they bring the design over from the Chinese market. They demand and love luxury items so I would imagine the interior quality can be amazing to woo rich buyers. Imagine if Toyota had brought over the Camry from the Chinese market where it is considered a luxury car, nobody will complain about having cheap interiors in the previous gens.
I do actually like this new Lexus ES over the current generation. While the design isn't too far off the current model, the sharper headlights, bumper and grill looks good.
The Chinese market is a different type of consumer market than the American market. In the Chinese market - Buick and Audi are their "top-tier" brands. While, no matter how good Buick has gotten, America's perception of Buick is still an old-man's car. That being said - I think the American market will still complain about the Camry because simply its a "Camry". I'm guilty of this too. One of the things keeping me from buying a Lexus ES is the fact that its a reskin Camry. I also wish they still make the ES in Japan rather than the USA. Don't get me wrong - I love American quality and support it. Its just that an American-made import just doesn't feel like an import to me. Same goes for other brands.
04-11-18, 12:37 PM
#24
FWD has nothing to do with fuel economy.
There are packaging benefits with FWD I agree.
RWD with snow tires will have better traction then FWD and much easier and more predictable to control if there is an emergency maneuver necessary. Modern traction control systems work very well on RWD cars. I live in NY and have driven RWD cars since 2001 without any issue all year round.
One of the magazines did review between FWD vs RWD vs AWD in the snow on same tires and FWD had the worst results in driveability.
Agreed. Lets get back on topic.
I do actually like this new Lexus ES over the current generation. While the design isn't too far off the current model, the sharper headlights, bumper and grill looks good.
The Chinese market is a different type of consumer market than the American market. In the Chinese market - Buick and Audi are their "top-tier" brands. While, no matter how good Buick has gotten, America's perception of Buick is still an old-man's car. That being said - I think the American market will still complain about the Camry because simply its a "Camry". I'm guilty of this too. One of the things keeping me from buying a Lexus ES is the fact that its a reskin Camry. I also wish they still make the ES in Japan rather than the USA. Don't get me wrong - I love American quality and support it. Its just that an American-made import just doesn't feel like an import to me. Same goes for other brands.
I do actually like this new Lexus ES over the current generation. While the design isn't too far off the current model, the sharper headlights, bumper and grill looks good.
The Chinese market is a different type of consumer market than the American market. In the Chinese market - Buick and Audi are their "top-tier" brands. While, no matter how good Buick has gotten, America's perception of Buick is still an old-man's car. That being said - I think the American market will still complain about the Camry because simply its a "Camry". I'm guilty of this too. One of the things keeping me from buying a Lexus ES is the fact that its a reskin Camry. I also wish they still make the ES in Japan rather than the USA. Don't get me wrong - I love American quality and support it. Its just that an American-made import just doesn't feel like an import to me. Same goes for other brands.
Last edited by highrev6; 04-11-18 at 12:46 PM.
04-11-18, 12:40 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
04-11-18, 12:51 PM
#26
I kind of agree. My point was more that the Spindle inserts are becoming better in their implementation. Last time they had the vertical slats iirc (and currently) is the non F-Sport RC, which has half vertical, a bar, and honeycomb below. Whether it's an F-Sport Zig Zag, diamond hash, hexagon, honeycomb, it's improving.
04-11-18, 01:00 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
TOYOTA see’s it differently, they are always being criticized as being a huge import brand that’s taking jobs from American workers and they want to be viewed as more of domestic brand in the opinion of the general pubic. When the TMMK plant that builds the CAMRY expanded to build the ES350 they sent 60 workers to Japan to learn how to build the ES to the Japanese standard that Toyota expects Lexus to be made to. I agree with what you saying imports should remain true imports dogma, but like you mentioned the ES main competition (XTS, Lacrosse, TLX, 300C, Impala) is American made cars and the Americans consumer majority want to support cars made by Americans workers.
However - I was more directing it towards Lexus. Imported Luxury vehicles should stay true to its import status quo. The perception of the vehicle feels less luxurious if your vehicle isn't made from the country origin despite costing well over 40K. One thing that triggers me about the 3 Series is that the parts are 60-65% German with it being made in either Mexico or South Africa. That's a bit hard to stomach when you are blowing well into the 50 grand range for a BMW.
But question: how do you feel about the Lexus ES, personally? I still can't shake the fact that its a reskinned Camry. ><
04-11-18, 01:03 PM
#28
Pole Position
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Agreed. Lets get back on topic.
I do actually like this new Lexus ES over the current generation. While the design isn't too far off the current model, the sharper headlights, bumper and grill looks good.
The Chinese market is a different type of consumer market than the American market. In the Chinese market - Buick and Audi are their "top-tier" brands. While, no matter how good Buick has gotten, America's perception of Buick is still an old-man's car. That being said - I think the American market will still complain about the Camry because simply its a "Camry". I'm guilty of this too. One of the things keeping me from buying a Lexus ES is the fact that its a reskin Camry. I also wish they still make the ES in Japan rather than the USA. Don't get me wrong - I love American quality and support it. Its just that an American-made import just doesn't feel like an import to me. Same goes for other brands.
I do actually like this new Lexus ES over the current generation. While the design isn't too far off the current model, the sharper headlights, bumper and grill looks good.
The Chinese market is a different type of consumer market than the American market. In the Chinese market - Buick and Audi are their "top-tier" brands. While, no matter how good Buick has gotten, America's perception of Buick is still an old-man's car. That being said - I think the American market will still complain about the Camry because simply its a "Camry". I'm guilty of this too. One of the things keeping me from buying a Lexus ES is the fact that its a reskin Camry. I also wish they still make the ES in Japan rather than the USA. Don't get me wrong - I love American quality and support it. Its just that an American-made import just doesn't feel like an import to me. Same goes for other brands.
04-11-18, 01:18 PM
#29
Nice points. Its true what you said. +1
One thing that triggers me about the 3 Series is that the parts are 60-65% German with it being made in either Mexico or South Africa.
But question: how do you feel about the Lexus ES, personally? I still can't shake the fact that its a reskinned Camry. ><
One thing that triggers me about the 3 Series is that the parts are 60-65% German with it being made in either Mexico or South Africa.
But question: how do you feel about the Lexus ES, personally? I still can't shake the fact that its a reskinned Camry. ><
Its a reskinned Camry, I don’t have a problem with the ES being around as long as it doesn’t impede on the next gen Lexus GS.
Let the cash cow selling grandpa car make money that goes towards developing the best GS ever, A athletic Japanese Samurai.
I’m just a little confused to how big they are going to allow the ES to grow, I know it’s not competitive with the LS, but the interior passenger volume seem like it will more than likely surpass the 2018 LS500 on paper.
My question to you is do you think Lexus will ask the chief engineer and his team to develop a even longer LS500L to further separate the ES, GS and LS?
04-11-18, 01:26 PM
#30
Nice points. Its true what you said. +1 That is exactly how Toyota are #1 in sales with in America - selling insane amounts of RAV4s, Corollas and Carmys.
However - I was more directing it towards Lexus. Imported Luxury vehicles should stay true to its import status quo. The perception of the vehicle feels less luxurious if your vehicle isn't made from the country origin despite costing well over 40K. One thing that triggers me about the 3 Series is that the parts are 60-65% German with it being made in either Mexico or South Africa. That's a bit hard to stomach when you are blowing well into the 50 grand range for a BMW.
But question: how do you feel about the Lexus ES, personally? I still can't shake the fact that its a reskinned Camry. ><
However - I was more directing it towards Lexus. Imported Luxury vehicles should stay true to its import status quo. The perception of the vehicle feels less luxurious if your vehicle isn't made from the country origin despite costing well over 40K. One thing that triggers me about the 3 Series is that the parts are 60-65% German with it being made in either Mexico or South Africa. That's a bit hard to stomach when you are blowing well into the 50 grand range for a BMW.
But question: how do you feel about the Lexus ES, personally? I still can't shake the fact that its a reskinned Camry. ><