Speculating on New 2025 Model ES 350
03-18-24, 09:47 AM
#166
Lexus Test Driver
In a word, styling.
Cars' sides have gotten much taller in recent years because of side-impact crash regulations. Today's cars have to more or less resist invasion if they're T-boned by a high-bumpered SUV. If you look at cars 20 years ago and now, even small cars today have much higher, sheer sides (check out the evolution of the Corolla, Civic or Miata for a dramatic example).
Stylists have been left with limited options to make up for that "wall of sheetmetal" look. One was the steeply scalloped sides created by Chris Bangle at BMW just to break up the visual monotony. I hate it, but that's one big reason he did it. And variations of it persist today in cars as diverse as Elantra compact sedans and Lexus SUVs. Another is to fill up some of that tall space with bright, decorative, taller wheels. As pointed out here, tall wheels demand low-section tires, which has cascading negative effects on ride and lessened wheel protection. But if they didn't do it, the cars would look ridiculous.
As an aside, another question we often hear is why modern cars have ridiculously huge grilles. That's a similar story: Today's cars must meet standards for not gutting pedestrians in a crash, so they're mandated to have blunt, soft plastic noses. The huge grilles are to disguise that problem so the car's nose doesn't look like giant featureless condom, which people would like even less.
Cars' sides have gotten much taller in recent years because of side-impact crash regulations. Today's cars have to more or less resist invasion if they're T-boned by a high-bumpered SUV. If you look at cars 20 years ago and now, even small cars today have much higher, sheer sides (check out the evolution of the Corolla, Civic or Miata for a dramatic example).
Stylists have been left with limited options to make up for that "wall of sheetmetal" look. One was the steeply scalloped sides created by Chris Bangle at BMW just to break up the visual monotony. I hate it, but that's one big reason he did it. And variations of it persist today in cars as diverse as Elantra compact sedans and Lexus SUVs. Another is to fill up some of that tall space with bright, decorative, taller wheels. As pointed out here, tall wheels demand low-section tires, which has cascading negative effects on ride and lessened wheel protection. But if they didn't do it, the cars would look ridiculous.
As an aside, another question we often hear is why modern cars have ridiculously huge grilles. That's a similar story: Today's cars must meet standards for not gutting pedestrians in a crash, so they're mandated to have blunt, soft plastic noses. The huge grilles are to disguise that problem so the car's nose doesn't look like giant featureless condom, which people would like even less.
also you can have a small profile front end/nose that exceeds cars with large noses. that particular form of safety doesn't require a large nose. it's not the size but how you use it, as they say. so cars having large grills doesn't really have to do with that. typically cars are just bigger, engines are bigger needing more air and generally large grills just are trending style wise. dont fall for red herrings
03-18-24, 09:56 AM
#167
I'll post a picture when I install 16" wheels the day these tires wear out or sooner if I just can't take 18" anymore!
03-18-24, 09:58 AM
#168
>Buy a 2024 ES 350 equipped with everything you want, maintain it conscientiously, shelter it thoughtfully, drive it responsibly and be spared, for a long time
Yup just did that! Am so impressed with the style, quality, and driving behavior (came from a '13 Luxury that was nice, but not THIS nice).
But am wondering, did anyone cross shop a new Lexus ES 350 against a Mercedes E Class? Can you describe what the Benz has that my ES 350 Lux lacks?
=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '24 Lexus ES350 Luxury
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF
Yup just did that! Am so impressed with the style, quality, and driving behavior (came from a '13 Luxury that was nice, but not THIS nice).
But am wondering, did anyone cross shop a new Lexus ES 350 against a Mercedes E Class? Can you describe what the Benz has that my ES 350 Lux lacks?
=================================
My karma just ran over your dogma
Current Hers: '24 Lexus ES350 Luxury
Current Mine: '15 Jaguar XF
03-18-24, 10:42 AM
#169
>Buy a 2024 ES 350 equipped with everything you want, maintain it conscientiously, shelter it thoughtfully, drive it responsibly and be spared, for a long time
Yup just did that! Am so impressed with the style, quality, and driving behavior (came from a '13 Luxury that was nice, but not THIS nice).
But am wondering, did anyone cross shop a new Lexus ES 350 against a Mercedes E Class? Can you describe what the Benz has that my ES 350 Lux lacks?
Yup just did that! Am so impressed with the style, quality, and driving behavior (came from a '13 Luxury that was nice, but not THIS nice).
But am wondering, did anyone cross shop a new Lexus ES 350 against a Mercedes E Class? Can you describe what the Benz has that my ES 350 Lux lacks?
03-18-24, 10:46 AM
#171
Lexus Test Driver
Can't speak to the E Class but I did sell my Audi S6 to get into my '24 Lux. Speed and handling was vastly better in the Audi, comfort was slightly worse, ergonomics slightly worse, reliability in the Audi was poor, multiple recalls, serving was very expensive, tires lasted 10k and were 1500 dollars to replace. Really 2 opposite philosophies of how to move someone down the road, one is meant to be sexy on the showroom floor and provide sports car levels of performance, the other is focused on long term reliability and low cost of operation.
03-18-24, 10:56 AM
#172
Racer
Thread Starter
Wonder if anyone has cross-shopped the 350 ES and the Genesis 80—$56,000 “entry level” 2.5 model. Styling is ery nice but I wonder about the reliability and longevity. Hard to beat Lexus at that!
03-18-24, 11:10 AM
#173
Lexus Test Driver
If you read the Genesis forums, you probably won't cross shop anything with a Genesis.
03-18-24, 11:53 AM
#174
03-18-24, 02:21 PM
#175
Lexus Test Driver
03-18-24, 02:22 PM
#176
To counter the lousy ride dynamics the auto manufacturers have had a spend a lot of money in suspension design with adaptive dampers or even air suspensions, all of which can smooth out the ride nicely, but substantially increase the purchase and maintenance cost of those cars, and are usually only available on higher end cars/models anyway.
Basically we have less choice and less comfort than we used to.
Basically we have less choice and less comfort than we used to.
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ATL350 (03-19-24)
03-18-24, 02:42 PM
#177
Mikemu30 is right … check out the Genesis forums - especially issues involving the dealership and ownership / purchase experience. I owned a G80 (Ultimate) for 3+ years. Throughout the entire ownership period I found the dealership experience to be somewhere between awful to poor. I’m in the Chicago west suburbs and dealt with 3 different dealerships in an effort to find a decent experience. It simply wasn’t possible. Frankly, I felt the dealership experience was lousy for their mainstream Hyundai customers let alone their premium brand Genesis customers. I bought my G80 in 2020 and heard promises about stand alone Genesis dealerships. To my knowledge there still aren’t any in the western suburbs of Chicago. And, per the Genesis forums there aren’t very many nationally. Moreover, anything other than routine maintenance can be a nightmare.
I confess I may not be an expert on Genesis reliably and longevity, however, I’d suggest looking at Hyundai counterparts for their track record since Genesis drivetrains and other technology is tied to Hyundai models. Frankly, Hyundai vehicles have a pretty poor track record visa via recalls.
I for one am thrilled to be back in the Lexus family with my 2024 ES 350 UL!
I confess I may not be an expert on Genesis reliably and longevity, however, I’d suggest looking at Hyundai counterparts for their track record since Genesis drivetrains and other technology is tied to Hyundai models. Frankly, Hyundai vehicles have a pretty poor track record visa via recalls.
I for one am thrilled to be back in the Lexus family with my 2024 ES 350 UL!
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LexFinally (03-18-24)
03-18-24, 08:59 PM
#178
There's plenty of high-side cars like even the ES, particularly 19-22 and even 23+ that don't provide stellar side 2.0 results. Hell there's plenty of SUVs that don't. The answer is more complicated than "oh my car has a tall/slab side so it's safe!" There's a ton that goes into the overall system that makes a car side-safe. materials (grades of hss-uhs.s, loading, layering, interfacing, sill strength, airbag timing, airbags in general (positioning), pre-tensioners. The science is so extremely challenging in fact that even to date, Volvo's and Mercedes best and brightest SUVs can't ace the new side test even with ginormous slab sides... there's only a small handful that can fully sweep the new very demanding side test. and they're all SUVs. Model Y for example is lower than most SUVs and low in general but it rocks the test (and frankly the entire world) with absurdly low intrusion and absurdly low forces in every category in every crash. It does so using incredibly strong construction, incredible overall design, an extremely robust lower sill, battery casing, and b pillar, and highly optimized airbags regularly updated via OTA updates using real-time fleet data. so TL;dr there's more to safety than appearance. it's what's inside and how it's used that counts.
also you can have a small profile front end/nose that exceeds cars with large noses. that particular form of safety doesn't require a large nose. it's not the size but how you use it, as they say. so cars having large grills doesn't really have to do with that. typically cars are just bigger, engines are bigger needing more air and generally large grills just are trending style wise. dont fall for red herrings
also you can have a small profile front end/nose that exceeds cars with large noses. that particular form of safety doesn't require a large nose. it's not the size but how you use it, as they say. so cars having large grills doesn't really have to do with that. typically cars are just bigger, engines are bigger needing more air and generally large grills just are trending style wise. dont fall for red herrings
I also never said that all grilles are equally upright, or that there was a perfect one-to-one correspondence between grille height and pedestrian protection. Again, you're "correcting" things I didn't say. I'm speaking about the reason for the trend. Your claim that large grilles are caused by a need for more intake air is decisively proven false by a closer examination of virtually any modern car, including the ES, which will show that much or even most of the stylist's "grille" is in fact closed off to intake air. As a rule, most of the actual intake is below the knee-high "bumper" line. Most of what's above is just for show and for brand identity.
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ATL350 (03-19-24)
03-19-24, 05:01 AM
#179
Lexus Test Driver
Back to wheels - enjoy this thread I pulled from the RX forum:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ry-spec-2.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ry-spec-2.html
03-19-24, 07:28 AM
#180
I didn't read from the start, but what has been the feeling for the 2025 ES? Not quite in the market for the ES but for the IS, but being both sedans their future could be intertwined.